Freeze crack.
R.O.C.K Restoration Project
- Thread starter rockfarmer
- Start date
staninlowerAL
501 Club
Agree with Jim. I've got one just like it, maybe a little further forward. I've not found a "fix" so far. Any ideas?
rockfarmer
501 Club
Guess I'll start looking for a new block.
Do you think the head will be OK?
I will begin tearing it apart tomorrow and will post my findings.
Do you think the head will be OK?
I will begin tearing it apart tomorrow and will post my findings.
staninlowerAL
501 Club
The only way I know to check for sure is to have it magnifluxed. You could also get an opinion on repairing the block from a good machine shop. I've read that welding a freeze damaged cracked block has been done in non stressed areas on some other tractor engines like SA and A. Never had any experience with this type repair.rockfarmer":2x87rkvm said:
Look at the casting dates on the head and the block, if they are way different then the head may have been replaced when the freeze happened. With the block and the front bolster both being repaired I wouldn't think those were the only 2 places it froze and busted but I could be wrong.rockfarmer":370hzb5s said:
This is one situation where Chipmaker's comment from earlier might apply:staninlowerAL":3o8epykk said:
If the engine is running fine, decent compression and not burning a bunch of oil, it might be best left alone. I wouldn't do major mechanical work on a defective block but there really is no point in discarding a functional engine if the problem is no more than cosmetic.Chipmaker":3o8epykk said:
People don't generally expect a perfect stock restoration on a tractor (or anything else) that is donated to charity to be auctioned or raffled. If you spend more on the restoration than the auction/raffle yields, the charity would have been better served by giving them the money!
rockfarmer
501 Club
Very well put!
Fix it too nice....you won't want to part with it.
Get it clean and running good.
No warranty expressed or implied.
A good running decent Cub around my area runs around $1800- 2500. Your areas average value is going to be a factor in what it is worth.....
Restored see higher prices than easy to sell.
Get it clean and running good.
No warranty expressed or implied.
A good running decent Cub around my area runs around $1800- 2500. Your areas average value is going to be a factor in what it is worth.....
Restored see higher prices than easy to sell.
staninlowerAL
501 Club
One other possibility that you could discuss with the machine shop is to drill and pin the crack. This involves drilling and driving brass pins into the holes so that the pins overlap. Since the engine runs at atmospheric pressure this process works well if it can be done. Some breaks do not lend itself to this type repair.rockfarmer":2f2jl390 said:
rockfarmer
501 Club
Using a hand crank, with the exhaust manifold removed, I got the following compression numbers:
Cylinder 1 2 3 4
Dry - 55 45 65 45
Wet- 90 50 95 65
Test method
1. Remove spark plug.
2. Connect compression tube with tight fit.
3. Hand crank as fast as possible for 5-6 revolutions.
4. Record number as dry value.
5. Relieve pressure.
6. Repeat 1-5 with one tablespoon of 10W-30 and record as wet value(s).
Cylinder 1 2 3 4
Dry - 55 45 65 45
Wet- 90 50 95 65
Test method
1. Remove spark plug.
2. Connect compression tube with tight fit.
3. Hand crank as fast as possible for 5-6 revolutions.
4. Record number as dry value.
5. Relieve pressure.
6. Repeat 1-5 with one tablespoon of 10W-30 and record as wet value(s).
rockfarmer
501 Club
I repeated the wet test on #2 cylinder,
..after I noticed a small puddle of oil on the floor. Traced it to #2 exhaust port. I presume the exhaust valve was open while adding oil or too much was added.
There was a slight improvement, from 50 to 60 psi, but based on what I have read, the numbers are still too low... aren't they?
This is the first time I have run a compression test on an engine, maybe I'm not doing it correctly, or, it just needs new rings.
Anyway, It is probably going on a road trip to Thrall, TX tomorrow. Machine shop. Let them evaluate it.
..after I noticed a small puddle of oil on the floor. Traced it to #2 exhaust port. I presume the exhaust valve was open while adding oil or too much was added.
There was a slight improvement, from 50 to 60 psi, but based on what I have read, the numbers are still too low... aren't they?
This is the first time I have run a compression test on an engine, maybe I'm not doing it correctly, or, it just needs new rings.
Anyway, It is probably going on a road trip to Thrall, TX tomorrow. Machine shop. Let them evaluate it.
rockfarmer
501 Club
Chipmaker":1e4vazh5 said:
I don't see any other repairs or cracks, yet. The head casting is 1-14-C
staninlowerAL
501 Club
TM casting code table shows "C" as '57 or '79. There should be a part # to tell the difference.
rockfarmer
501 Club
Part # 251228 R1 F 2
Hi,
You could look at the engine serial number, you probably know where it is, to the rear of the carburetor, stamped in the engine block. And look at the block part number and casting date, below the carb. The whole engine could have been replaced, or just the head.
In your pic above, it looks like the high speed limit bolt, on the governor is screwed down all the way, it probably needs to be backed out so the throttle can open.
Also, the stop on the throttle arm is not in line with the end of the bolt, unless it is just the pic making it look that way. Something probably needs fixing there. Maybe the arm needs to go on the shaft farther.
I would oil the shaft and arm while it is easy to get to, so it turns easily, they commonly get tight there from no oil.
Below is a pic from TM Tractor, of how they should fit, and the bolt usually has to be about in this position, if it is the original length bolt.
You could look at the engine serial number, you probably know where it is, to the rear of the carburetor, stamped in the engine block. And look at the block part number and casting date, below the carb. The whole engine could have been replaced, or just the head.
In your pic above, it looks like the high speed limit bolt, on the governor is screwed down all the way, it probably needs to be backed out so the throttle can open.
Also, the stop on the throttle arm is not in line with the end of the bolt, unless it is just the pic making it look that way. Something probably needs fixing there. Maybe the arm needs to go on the shaft farther.
I would oil the shaft and arm while it is easy to get to, so it turns easily, they commonly get tight there from no oil.
Below is a pic from TM Tractor, of how they should fit, and the bolt usually has to be about in this position, if it is the original length bolt.
Attachments
staninlowerAL
501 Club
Here's the page from ENG 1 REV 20 12-75 detailing the head applications:
Looks like Engine SN 312589 and below used head PN 251 221 R1 and Engine SN 312590 as well as Number series LOBOY used head PN 355 691 R2. Part of the increased HP change.
Looks like Engine SN 312589 and below used head PN 251 221 R1 and Engine SN 312590 as well as Number series LOBOY used head PN 355 691 R2. Part of the increased HP change.rockfarmer
501 Club
Engine serial number is 80322
Block ID 251341 R2
6-10-S
Exhaust valve - 251 261 R1
Wiped with acetone
Look original?
I noticed a small crack at #4 and #3 cylinder where the head bolt and triangular shaped coolant port meet, which, coincidentally is located next to the JB Weld we found.
I think we should probably replace this one. Never know, I might be the highest bidder
Block ID 251341 R2
6-10-S
Exhaust valve - 251 261 R1
Wiped with acetone
Look original?
I noticed a small crack at #4 and #3 cylinder where the head bolt and triangular shaped coolant port meet, which, coincidentally is located next to the JB Weld we found.
I think we should probably replace this one. Never know, I might be the highest bidder
rockfarmer
501 Club
Glen":3cd519m9 said:Hi,
S is the code for 1949, so the block was made on June 10, 1949. Maybe you already knew that.
So, Glen, based on your information, in keeping as close to the "original" theme as possible, we need to replace the block with an S code.
Well, a few days ago, we were offered a free block with an S on it by one of our members. I'm not going to mention his name without permission first, but he lives in the great state of Alabama :hattip:
Also, we just received a brand new;
Sure does make the rest of Rocky (our tractor) look bad!
Thanks Chipmaker!
Hi,
I got the date info from TM Tractor, here are the 2 pages with info about casting codes.
http://www.tmtractor.com/id/castdate_loc.htm
http://www.tmtractor.com/id/id_004.htm
Some people weld cracked cast iron blocks, I think, and they seem to work.
I got the date info from TM Tractor, here are the 2 pages with info about casting codes.
http://www.tmtractor.com/id/castdate_loc.htm
http://www.tmtractor.com/id/id_004.htm
Some people weld cracked cast iron blocks, I think, and they seem to work.