154 starter and alternator upgrade

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Mike S
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154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby Mike S » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:16 am

Hello, please forgive me if this subject has been covered here before, (I'm sure it has) but I just joined this forum and I have a 154 and would like to upgrade the starter to a conventional type starter and install a mini alternator. I believe the flywheel will accept a starter ring gear. If so is this the same ring gear that is used on the older cubs? Also will the starter from an older cub mount on my 154. I thought I remember reading that there was a metal piece that had to be remover before a starter could be mounted. I did see a 6 volt starter that had a post type battery connection and that would work but nothing was said about it working on a 154. I have used 6 volt starters on 12 volt applications in the past and had excellent results. Any information on this upgrade including the mini alternator would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all in advance. :thanx:

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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby tldec50 » Sat May 01, 2021 2:53 pm

Search 154 starter conversion in the search bar on the top of this page.You will find several items discussing the swap

BigBill
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby BigBill » Sat May 01, 2021 3:11 pm

We remove the cover plate were the geared starter mounts. There’s a frame rib that we need to cut out. So the starter fits in the hole. I believe the fcub ring gear fits the 154 engine crank flywheel. Remove the s/g and add the one wire alternator. Run the one wire to the battery wire from the regulator. Run new battery cables. I removed cables that had acid eating the inside copper wire to the solenoid.

I purchased single terminal wire fcub starters on eBay.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

Eugene
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby Eugene » Sun May 02, 2021 8:35 am

The time to do the conversion is when you pull the engine for a major overhaul.
I have an excuse. CRS.

Bbading1989
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby Bbading1989 » Sun May 02, 2021 3:39 pm

Honestly you might as well try to upgrade to a 184. I have a 184 and I'll share some things I've learned.
1. Many Delco alternators will fit this machine. Obviously you need a v belt but most of all the stock one does not charge at idle. I believe the 10si will charge through the whole rpm range so look for one of those with the correct mounting orientation. They are very cheap something like $50 refurbished.
2. The starter is a very common type made by ac Delco. What makes the IH version rare is the cast iron "head" which holds the starter gear. The gear can be bought brand new so all you need is the head. The starter itself is very common and the only thing you would need to do is buy a new/refurbished starter and swap the "head" on it and you will be set. Many old car guys will buy whatever starter the box stores have and swap their engine specific "head" onto it.

The main issue you will have is finding a flywheel that has the ring gear pressed on. Best of luck! :wink:

outdoors4evr
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby outdoors4evr » Mon May 03, 2021 5:14 am

If committed to this machine (not upgrading to a 184) then just buy parts for the 184 and you will have the best chance at component fitment. The 184 starter would be the most difficult component to find. Yes, you would still have to remove material from the block to accommodate the starter.

The 184 alternator from the factory does not charge right away at an idle. It is meant to be that way so it doesn't put a load on the engine during starting. Once the throttle is bumped up a small bit (around 1000RPM), the alternator starts charging and continues to charge regardless of RPM (Even if returned to idle).
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Bbading1989
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby Bbading1989 » Tue May 04, 2021 6:05 pm

outdoors4evr wrote:If committed to this machine (not upgrading to a 184) then just buy parts for the 184 and you will have the best chance at component fitment. The 184 starter would be the most difficult component to find. Yes, you would still have to remove material from the block to accommodate the starter.

The 184 alternator from the factory does not charge right away at an idle. It is meant to be that way so it doesn't put a load on the engine during starting. Once the throttle is bumped up a small bit (around 1000RPM), the alternator starts charging and continues to charge regardless of RPM (Even if returned to idle).


For my information where did you find this? The factory alternator is just a off the shelf Delco Remy. I know for a fact that mine does not charge when it's returned to idle after revving up then down.

Eugene
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby Eugene » Tue May 04, 2021 8:13 pm

Bbading1989 wrote:The main issue you will have is finding a flywheel that has the ring gear pressed on.
You can purchase a ring gear. Heat it and it will drop in place.

Site search for how to.
I have an excuse. CRS.

outdoors4evr
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed May 05, 2021 6:04 am

Bbading1989 wrote:For my information where did you find this? The factory alternator is just a off the shelf Delco Remy. I know for a fact that mine does not charge when it's returned to idle after revving up then down.


Experience. With a 184, starting with a low battery, you can see the ammeter sitting at zero when the engine starts. Throttle up a little and then the ammeter jumps toward the + side. Idle back down and the ammeter stays on the + side. Ammeter eventually settles down near zero as the battery is charged.
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BigBill
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby BigBill » Wed May 05, 2021 8:33 pm

Get a 10si alternator with a double pulley. Keep the s/g for the starter. Mount the alternator.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

BigBill
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby BigBill » Wed May 05, 2021 8:36 pm

If you sweat the ring gear on have six or more c clamps ready to clamp the ring gear as it cools. It can walk off as it cools. Check for the ring gear being snug to the flywheel after it cools.

I’ve sweated large ring gears that can walk off.
I'm technically misunderstood at times i guess its been this way my whole life so why should it change now.

Bbading1989
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby Bbading1989 » Wed May 05, 2021 10:44 pm

outdoors4evr wrote:
Bbading1989 wrote:For my information where did you find this? The factory alternator is just a off the shelf Delco Remy. I know for a fact that mine does not charge when it's returned to idle after revving up then down.


Experience. With a 184, starting with a low battery, you can see the ammeter sitting at zero when the engine starts. Throttle up a little and then the ammeter jumps toward the + side. Idle back down and the ammeter stays on the + side. Ammeter eventually settles down near zero as the battery is charged.



Interesting! Something funky must be going on with my 184. Mine will peg + and then drop to 0 and then repeat every so often. I've had battery problems in the past but for the past 3 or so years it seems to be working good after I replaced all the battery cabels

Mike S
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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby Mike S » Thu May 06, 2021 2:57 pm

Thanks to all who responded to my questions on the starter/alternator upgrade. The information has helped me make a decision as how and what to do to make this happen. Thank you again.

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Re: 154 starter and alternator upgrade

Postby SamsFarm » Thu May 06, 2021 4:09 pm

Bbading1989 wrote:

Interesting! Something funky must be going on with my 184. Mine will peg + and then drop to 0 and then repeat every so often. I've had battery problems in the past but for the past 3 or so years it seems to be working good after I replaced all the battery cabels


I wonder if you have a loose wire, or a gauge on the blink!
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