Super C generator not charging

Farmall C, Super C Tractors, 200 & 230 1948-1958
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DonMountain
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Super C generator not charging

Postby DonMountain » Tue May 02, 2023 7:09 pm

I have been doing some maintenance work on my Super C tractor with fast hitch it preparation for summer mowing. Replaced the leaking radiator and old battery. Now it starts and runs good but the generator does not charge when the engine is running. Is there a system for determining what part of the electrical system is not functioning properly? It has a new battery and starts and runs well with a battery ignition. I checked the fuse and it is good. So, I assume its either the voltage regulator or the generator itself? How might I test these?
1959 International Cub Lo-Boy W/Fast hitch, 59 Woods, dozer blade, plow
1954 Farmall Super C W/Fast hitch, belly dozer blade
1950 Farmall M

tst
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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby tst » Tue May 02, 2023 9:13 pm

here are 2 flow charts, one for a regulator system, the other for a cut out type
Attachments
08-Regulatortroubleshootingchartrev.gif
07-Cutouttroubleshootingchartrev1_0.gif

DonMountain
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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby DonMountain » Wed May 03, 2023 10:47 am

Thanks for your help. Printed off a copy of the Generator/Regulator page and heading to the barn with it in hand.
Don
1959 International Cub Lo-Boy W/Fast hitch, 59 Woods, dozer blade, plow
1954 Farmall Super C W/Fast hitch, belly dozer blade
1950 Farmall M

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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby DonMountain » Wed May 03, 2023 11:42 am

Ok, I got down to the box 3 that says "Jumper Generator "FLD" Terminal to ground". And I could hear the engine slow down slightly like there was a slight load on it, and I took a look at the ammeter and it was pegged on the "charge" side. So I guess my voltage regulator is burned out. Where might I find another one of these? Do they still make them? Are there good and bad ones?
Don
1959 International Cub Lo-Boy W/Fast hitch, 59 Woods, dozer blade, plow
1954 Farmall Super C W/Fast hitch, belly dozer blade
1950 Farmall M

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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby ajhbike » Wed May 03, 2023 11:46 am

The last one I bought for a cub was from NAPA and it has worked fine. Assume since you got to box 3 you polarized the generator? That is often the case on the 3 tractors with generators I have

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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby Don McCombs » Wed May 03, 2023 11:46 am

Are you running 6volts or 12?
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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby Jim Becker » Wed May 03, 2023 12:24 pm

DonMountain wrote:Ok, I got down to the box 3 that says "Jumper Generator "FLD" Terminal to ground". And I could hear the engine slow down slightly like there was a slight load on it, and I took a look at the ammeter and it was pegged on the "charge" side. So I guess my voltage regulator is burned out. Where might I find another one of these? Do they still make them? Are there good and bad ones?
Don

Do a couple more things before you toss the regulator. Try a jumper from the "FLD" terminal of the regulator to the frame of the regulator. This confirms that you don't have a bad wire from the generator to the regulator. If that jumper makes it charge, the problem is definitely internal to the regulator. That is the point most people would go ahead and replace the regulator. HOWEVER, I suggest you take the cover off the regulator and take a try at cleaning the voltage regulator points (not the cut-out points). The voltage regulator points will be the pair that is closed. Carefully open them enough to slide a point file in and do a little filing to clean them up. Do not use sandpaper, emery cloth or any other abrasive. You will ruin your regulator by doing that, so you might as well save some time and just throw the regulator away now. After removing the file, open the points a bit and blow out any filings or rinse them with a no-residue cleaner. See if that fixes it. If that doesn't fix it or it doesn't stay fixed, it is time for a new regulator.

That is a lot of puttering with the old regulator that may not fix it. But I suggest doing it because of the answer to your other questions. New regulators are available from a lot of places. The problem is that a lot of them are junk, literal out of box failures. They are fairly expensive and the good ones are even more expensive. The good ones are made in the USA. I haven't gotten one from him, but others report getting a good one from Brillman.

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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby SamsFarm » Wed May 03, 2023 2:20 pm

I had one last year that had a bad ground.

Fixed the ground on the regulator and started charging like it was supposed to

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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby DonMountain » Thu May 04, 2023 2:13 pm

I went to NAPA and paid $70 for a new regulator before seeing the other recommendations. Put the new regulator in, hooked the battery back up and polarized the generator according to the instructions in my operators manual. Started the tractor and I am getting a charge but the ammeter is constantly and rapidly bouncing between a very slight discharge and a 10 or 15 amp charge. The NAPA regulator was made in Turkey. So, now what do I do with it?
1959 International Cub Lo-Boy W/Fast hitch, 59 Woods, dozer blade, plow
1954 Farmall Super C W/Fast hitch, belly dozer blade
1950 Farmall M

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Don McCombs
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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby Don McCombs » Thu May 04, 2023 2:23 pm

I would try Jim’s suggestion with the old regulator. It’s unlikely that NAPA will take back an electrical part that has been installed, but it’s worth trying.
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DonMountain
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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby DonMountain » Fri May 05, 2023 2:58 pm

I have the "new" Turkey made regulator all hooked up. I took off the cover and watched it operate when I started the tractor. The set of points on the top connected to the Field terminal of the generator is what is rapidly switching, connecting and then disconnecting. The "old" regulator is identical to this new one. And I am not sure what caused it to fail. I may have accidentally shorted it at one time when working on the system. Anyway, the point gaps between the two regulators are noticeably different. Should they be the same? Or are they set with a known amperage or voltage present in the electromagnet that operates them? Is there a technique for adjusting them? Like operating the engine at known speed and moving the gap until it closes? Or is there something else that is switching that coil on and off rapidly? Or does the other coil and points control the field coil?
1959 International Cub Lo-Boy W/Fast hitch, 59 Woods, dozer blade, plow
1954 Farmall Super C W/Fast hitch, belly dozer blade
1950 Farmall M

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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby tst » Fri May 05, 2023 7:55 pm

the regulator gap can be adjusted, takes patience, just a fraction at a time, the import regs are junk, I only use the USA made, cost more, they may need to be adjusted also, closing the point should make it charge more,

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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby Jim Becker » Fri May 05, 2023 9:24 pm

I have long suspected that the major problem with the imported regulators is that the factory doesn't adjust them. I think the proper gaps etc. for the originals are in one or another of the manuals. Unfortunately, other differences in how the replacements are made may make the original adjustment specs meaningless.

I believe there is a Delco manual somewhere in the PDF manuals that explains how a voltage regulator works.

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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby DonMountain » Sun May 07, 2023 2:23 pm

I found the manual for the original Delco-Remy voltage regulator, and looked through it to try to figure out an adjustment process to correct the voltage regulator I have. But there is no mention of the problem I am having with the "upper voltage regulator" coil rapidly switching to cause the charge/discharge appearing on the amp gauge. Is it a spring tension problem? Or a point gap problem on this coil? I think the "cutout-relay" coil stayed switched on or the points connected. And not being an electrical engineer I can't trace the fault to any thing or adjustment in particular looking at the wiring diagram. I know when a coil is energized that it attracts the switch arm to close the contacts. So, if I either narrow the switch gap or lighten the spring tension it seems like the switch would stay switched on? But what is wrong that causes it to oscillate?
1959 International Cub Lo-Boy W/Fast hitch, 59 Woods, dozer blade, plow
1954 Farmall Super C W/Fast hitch, belly dozer blade
1950 Farmall M

tst
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Re: Super C generator not charging

Postby tst » Sun May 07, 2023 7:02 pm

closing the gap slightly should make it charge, use a meter to watch the charging rate, gauges go bad also and bounce, again you can confirm that watching a meter


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