alternator woes

Farmall Super A, AV, 100, 130, & 140 1939 - 1973
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jdeere86
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64' 140
Late 50s 140
Location: western massachusetts

alternator woes

Postby jdeere86 » Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:01 am

hey everyone

spring is here and tractors are running. my 140 with the 12v conversion seems to be draining the battery. Last year I was running her fine and would get the RPMS up to a certain level and then the alternator would self excite and start to charge. will say the needle was going left instead of right on my ammeter . maybe just wired backwards.

anyhow this year it will not self excite by getting the rpms up there.

any chance if i bought this harness i could wire a diode into it to get her to start charging

wm_ADR9209.jpg
harness
wm_ADR9209.jpg (15.33 KiB) Viewed 502 times


a photo of the alternator

0424230647_HDR.jpg
alternator


a wiring diagram that i followed -- notice for the warning light it says a diode may be used

05-12vAlternatorConv-rev4_22_08 (1).gif
diagram

inairam
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1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
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Re: alternator woes

Postby inairam » Mon Apr 24, 2023 6:08 am

when I have done Alternator conversion I usually put a separate ground wire on the alternator to the block mounting bolt. I do not like relying on the brackets and the hinge for the ground. It may not be your issue but a jumper wire would tell.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

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Re: alternator woes

Postby Gary Dotson » Mon Apr 24, 2023 7:26 am

Yes, you can add a diode. You don’t need anybody’s harness to add a diode, just run a wire from you coil, diode in line, to the #1 terminal on the alternator. I got tired of having to remember to rev the engine, every time I started the tractors. Now, I just add the diode right from the start. Diodes are cheap, a small 2 amp will work nicely.

inairam
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Posts: 2851
Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:24 am
Zip Code: 19342
Tractors Owned: 1948 6v - Dozer
1949 with kub klipper belly mower. mag 6v - Mom
1950 with plow, 54 blade, mott mag 6v - Roxanne
1953 54 blade, c22, wood 42 6v
1957 6v - barn Queen
1965 lo-boy with c-3 mower 12 v - Loboy
1974 Horse II 12 v c-2
1975 with woods 42-6 12 v - Horse
1979 long strip 12 v stuck engine
130 with international 1000 loader 6 v
1969 140 with bush hog tow behind mower 12 v
Terramite T-6 4WD Backhoe Perkins diesel
Memberships: Rough and Tumble Engineers Historical Association;Chapter 8 IH Collectors; IH Collectors Worldwide
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Glen Mills PA

Re: alternator woes

Postby inairam » Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:45 am

was the alternator listed as a one-wire self-exciting alternator? If so you should not need a diode.
Last edited by inairam on Mon Apr 24, 2023 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
When you only have 9 horsepower you need to know the names of all of the ponies!

tst
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Re: alternator woes

Postby tst » Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:52 am

a diode just makes the current flow only in one direction , for a one wire alternator to work you need battery voltage at the alternator and that it spins fast enough to excite, with a meter it should be around 14-14.5 volts

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ShawnAgne
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Re: alternator woes

Postby ShawnAgne » Mon Apr 24, 2023 8:35 pm

I've found on my Cub that if it isn't grounded properly it won't excite. Haven't had the issue with the other two. I've thought about changing the alternator pully on the cub to a smaller one as I have to rev it fairly high. If I'm mowing isn't an issue. The 300 and 100 don't have to go as high for whatever reason.
Shawn Agne

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Re: alternator woes

Postby phill_mi » Tue Apr 25, 2023 7:52 am

My understanding is that originally the Delco 10si was 3-wire and that in some cases a 1-wire regulator has been installed in the 10si. So a 10si may or may not be 1-wire configured. I read that a 1-wire regulator typically has a wire at the base of the two pin connector shorting the pins. My tractor had a 10si wired by the PO's grandfather, long ago, as a 1-wire with nothing connected to the 2 pin connector. The battery slowly drained down and the ammeter rarely showed charging, and then very little even when reved. As an experiment with the tractor idling, I touched a jumper wire from pin 1 (on the left of the connector) to B+, momentarily and released it. The alternator started charging at full rate. I also could not see a jumper wire at the base of the connector. I added a diode with the cathode (barred end) to pin 1 of the connector and the anode of the diode to the ignition switch. I also ran a wire from pin 2 back to battery + to get real sensing of the battery, rather than connecting at the alternator B+. I used a piece of an extension cord that the dog had shredded and crimp spade clips to connect to the connector terminals. Any power diode with work as it only needs to pass a forward current of around half an amp and have a reverse blocking voltage of more than 20v.

jdeere86
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Tractors Owned: 53' cub ''betsy''
64' 140
Late 50s 140
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Re: alternator woes

Postby jdeere86 » Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:25 am

Ended up running a wire from the coil with a diode inline to the #1 terminal on the alternator. Had to switch the wires on the back of the ammeter to get her to show positive. Initially it was showing -20. Its now showing a little under 10 ... is that enough of a charge? I know its a lot better than it being at zero. Couldn't have done it without this board. Thank you all very much!!
Attachments
ammeter.jpg
0427231650a.jpg
0427231649.jpg
diode

JoeB
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Re: alternator woes

Postby JoeB » Fri Apr 28, 2023 9:29 am

A self exciting alternator will lose residual magnetism in the rotor if it not used for a long period of time. You can manually excite it and it should work again. There may be a youtube video or something to show this.

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Re: alternator woes

Postby Eugene » Fri Apr 28, 2023 12:12 pm

jdeere86 wrote:Initially it was showing -20. Its now showing a little under 10 ... is that enough of a charge?
Watch the amp gauge during and immediately after engine start up. Amp gauge should initially show a significat charge then slowly drop down to below 10 amps. That's with only the ignition operating, no lightts, etc..
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Don McCombs
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Re: alternator woes

Postby Don McCombs » Fri Apr 28, 2023 1:25 pm

I think I would consider putting some heat shrink tubing on that diode and the adjacent connectors.
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Gary Dotson
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48 Leader "D" unrestored
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Kubota B8200HST-D
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Re: alternator woes

Postby Gary Dotson » Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:47 am

I don’t pay a lot of attention to the amp output, it’s entirely dependent on load. Check the charging voltage, at the battery, should be 13.6 - 14.5. If it’s carrying good voltage, don’t worry what the ammeter shows.

jdeere86
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Posts: 212
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 1:56 pm
Zip Code: 01098
Tractors Owned: 53' cub ''betsy''
64' 140
Late 50s 140
Location: western massachusetts

Re: alternator woes

Postby jdeere86 » Sun Apr 30, 2023 11:37 am

Eugene. You are correct - after she fires the gauge shows a significant charge and then drops below 10. I'll get a tester from a buddy to check the charging voltage at the battery. My other friend who gave me the crimps said he'd come over and solder the connection after I see that it is working correctly. In the meantime I did wrap well with electrical tape and have since done some work out in the field without issues. Tomorrow or someday soon I hope to make a post inquiring about the possibility of if and when I should ever consider or will need to update the starter on this 59' . Right now it is a pull rod to start. Thank you all again

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Re: alternator woes

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Apr 30, 2023 4:20 pm

jdeere86 wrote:.....Tomorrow or someday soon I hope to make a post inquiring about the possibility of if and when I should ever consider or will need to update the starter on this 59' . Right now it is a pull rod to start. Thank you all again
I had starter shop successfully replace the "nub" connection on a 6v cub starter with a threaded bolt type connector to use a ring terminal type cable. Added an electrical solenoid and you're back to work. The main problem is finding a shop who still does the "in house" repairs that can remove the "nub" and solder in the bolt . Seems like most of those craftsmen are gone. JMHO Stan
Stan in LA (lower AL)
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Gary Dotson
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Tractors Owned: 48 Cub Diesel (Cubota)
53 Cockshutt 20 restored (Shooter)
52 Cockshutt 20 unrestored
47 Leader "B" (Herckie)
49 Leader "D" (Princess)
49 Leader "D" very rough
48 Leader "D" unrestored
Kubota B6200E
Kubota B6200HST
Kubota B8200HST-D
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Location: OH West Mansfield

Re: alternator woes

Postby Gary Dotson » Mon May 01, 2023 8:09 am

If you’re looking to ditch the pull rod, you can do as Stan mentioned but if you’re ok with the pull rod, you will probably have no issue with the 6 volt starter, as long as it’s in good condition. They are really quite robust.


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