Super AV no spark questions

Farmall Super A, AV, 100, 130, & 140 1939 - 1973
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customcutter
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Super AV no spark questions

Postby customcutter » Tue Jan 17, 2023 6:58 pm

I pulled the battery on the SAV Saturday, but haven't picked up a battery yet. It has a 12v battery, alternator, and external coil on top of the magneto/distributor. (I'm not sure if it's a mag or a distributor) I finally decided to start checking it out today. I cleaned up the cable ends and hooked a battery charger to it that has a 225amp jump setting. I have been turning it over by hand several times over the past couple of weeks just to make sure it's free. Today I pulled all of the plugs, they were black with carbon buildup, so I wire brushed them all off and touched them up with a file. I added about 1/2 ounce of light hyd oil to each cylinder through the spark plug holes to lube the piston rings. I pulled the distributor cap, rotor, and the plate over the points and condenser. I lightly filed the points but didn't check the gap. I noticed that the "bakelite" cover for the points and condenser had some broken flanges/edges but didn't think they would cause any issue. Next, I cleaned the rotor button and the contacts inside the distributor cap. I re-installed the "bakelite" plate, rotor, and distributor cap.

I set the battery charger to 225amps and tried grounding a sparkplug to the frame, turned the motor over and no spark. I thought maybe I wasn't getting a good ground through the paint and grime so I ran a wire from the negative terminal on the charger to the threads on the base of the plug and still no spark.

I don't think it would have to have a battery to produce a spark, but I'm not sure? I guess I need to check the gap on the points, to make sure they are opening properly? What should the gap be .030"? I'll check a couple of YT videos but I think I can check the coil and condenser with a voltmeter? Any thoughts on what else to check? I did notice a loose wire on the other side of the coil, so I'll tighten that up.

Tractor last ran 7-8 years ago, when someone borrowed it to drive in a parade, LOL!

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customcutter
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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby customcutter » Tue Jan 17, 2023 7:01 pm

Sorry the pics didn't post. I saved the message as a draft while I downloaded and tried to size the pics. When I pulled the draft back up it wouldn't let me submit it. So I back paged a few times until I got back to the message. I tried copy/pasting the pics but didn't show up.

Jim Becker
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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:20 pm

I don't know what sort of voltage might be produced by your booster. Even a small battery charger can go way over 12 volts when not connected to a battery. In any case, I'd quit experimenting with it until I had a battery in place to keep from burning anything up.

I don't know if you have a magneto or battery ignition. Your description of the parts makes it sound like battery ignition. If so, the point gap should be 0.013 0.020 (corrected per Gary's comment below). Follow this link to a post with pictures of Cub magneto and battery ignition distributor. Yours should look similar, probably not identical, to one of the other.
http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113015&start=15#p906457

customcutter
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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby customcutter » Tue Jan 17, 2023 10:57 pm

Thanks for the reply, Jim. I hadn't considered the charger supplying over 12V. It is a battery ignition but has an alternator and the coil mounted to the top side of the distributor. I'll pick up a battery tomorrow. I don't know if it was originally 6V or 12V, but thought they were 6V.

I watched a couple of videos on YT of a guy with a spark issue on the SA. It appeared to be a faulty ground. He had replaced everything coil, points, condenser, wires, etc and still had no spark. He pulled the plate out of the distributor that the points and condenser mount on and cleaned up all of the contact surfaces between the plate and the distributor housing. He finally got spark after all of that.

Hopefully if I can get it running it will need plugs, wires, maybe dist cap, etc. I also need to make a gasket for the sediment bowl. Right now it's supposedly leaking also.

thanks again, Ken

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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:51 pm

Was originally 6-volt. With the alternator etc. it is pretty certainly 12-volt now.

staninlowerAL
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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby staninlowerAL » Wed Jan 18, 2023 4:02 am

Ken, as I recall in other posts you said that the tractor has an external coil mounted over the mag. If it has a magneto ignition there are some other things that have to be correct for it to fire. You really need to sort out what you are dealing with. Here's some pics. of a Cub mag, SA will look similiar. First is a Cub J4 magneto, second is a cub with a distributor/battery ignition, 3rd is a J4 magneto mounted on a cub and 4th is a J4 magneto with an external coil on a Cub. Hope this helps. Stan

TMTRACTORmag.jpg
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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed Jan 18, 2023 8:43 am

It doesn’t happen often but Jim posted an in correct point gap. With the battery ignition unit, the point gap should be .020”, the mag gets the .013” that was posted.

customcutter
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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby customcutter » Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:34 am

Stan, thanks for the pics. I had followed the link in Jim's post and it is definitely a distributor and coil. No voltage regulator or relay behind the coil though due to the alternator.

Gary thanks for the info. I certainly understand that sometimes the wrong information gets posted. But the good thing about forums is that usually someone else catches it and it gets corrected. I'm sure I've done it on the other forums that I am active on.

I realize that most folks here are probably purist and would like to see it in the original condition. But, has anyone converted to an electronic ignition? I've watched several YT videos and most people comment favorably about them. Everything from more power to better fuel economy. However, there are some who comment that they don't last very long. I'm not sure why they would be prone to failure?

Thanks again to everyone for the information.

staninlowerAL
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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby staninlowerAL » Wed Jan 18, 2023 9:35 am

Gary Dotson wrote:It doesn’t happen often but Jim posted an in correct point gap. With the battery ignition unit, the point gap should be .020”, the mag gets the .013” that was posted.
And if you are using an external coil with a magneto the point gap is still .013. FWIW, I had a battery/distributor ignition on a FCub that would not fire at the plugs but would arc as the points opened and closed. Finally determined that the coil had an open circuit on the inductive current side. I replaced the coil with a known good one and it fired up immediately. Good Luck. Stan
Stan in LA (lower AL)
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Jim Becker
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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Jan 18, 2023 11:33 am

Gary Dotson wrote:It doesn’t happen often but Jim posted an in correct point gap. With the battery ignition unit, the point gap should be .020”, the mag gets the .013” that was posted.

Dang. That is what I get for posting off the top of my head when I should look first. The original has been corrected.

customcutter
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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby customcutter » Wed Jan 18, 2023 7:51 pm

I didn't get to work on the SAV today. Hopefully I can pick up a battery tomorrow. Too busy pulling and hauling fat lighter stumps with the JD6140.

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Re: Super AV no spark questions

Postby customcutter » Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:36 pm

Back to no spark on the Super AV. The write up is in the other Super AV is Alive thread.

I'm going to have to try finding that YT video again of the guy that had a faulty ground and had to pull and clean his distributor. Hopefully it's something else. I really don't want to mess with pulling the distributor and risk getting the timing off.


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