inherited non-running Cub

[Eugene]

Grandpa parked the Cub for some unknown reason. Depending on what was/is the problem, there is going to be some expense in getting the tractor running.

It's getting late in the Cubfest season. Might locate the nearest Cubfest and trailer the tractor to it. Have the guys go over the tractor.

What is a complete non-running Cub worth. Depends on condition. Perhaps $400-, and that is without seeing the tractor.

With the spark plugs out, using the fan, rotate the engine two complete revolutions of the crankshaft pulley. Engine should easily rotate through the two revolutions without a catch or tough spot.

[staninlowerAL]

Here are my questions?
1.) Is there a chance that the fan belt/fan is what is restricting the movement or is that unlikely?
1.) on a scale of 1 to 10(10 being complete engine rebuild), how complex does the point of increased resistance and the compression symptoms sound? My gut tells me that i would need to yank apart the engine. Which frankly sounds like fun if i had the free time and a place to do the work over a long period of time. But i dont so to not anger my wife anymore, i need some sort of estimate to give her as to what i would be getting into.
2.) if i walk away from this project, can anyone give me a rough market value for a non-running cub w/o implements in Wisconsin?

A. Eliminate the fan issue by loosening the fan shaft (don't try to turn the nut) and get some slack or remove the belt. Not necessary to remove the radiator. Hood off makes it easier. Remove the plugs and try the starter or hand crank to see if the engine cycles over. If yes, then the compression is the resistance you are feeling.
B. Complete engine rebuild in my area would be $1200-1500 for machine shop work and depending on parts needed could be another $500-800 on the high side. You can easily put $2000 in a complete rebuild including labor.
C. As Eugene said, a complete non-runner is worth $300-500 around my area, depending on condition. I've paid as low as $125 and high $400. Realistically it's worth the weight (about 1500lb) x the price of scrap (about .02/lb) if you take it to a scrap dealer. You can part it out and get a few hundred dollars for it if you find the right buyers.

[Glen]

Hi,
The fan assembly slides up and down in a slot made in the front of the engine, to adjust the fan belt tension. You do not remove the radiator. The belt can be replaced without removing the radiator, or shroud too.
The belt being tight would not affect the way the engine turns over.

Below is a page from the Cub owner's manual telling about adjusting the fan belt.
You turn the 6 sided place for a wrench made in the shaft at C in the pic, which is right next to the generator pulley on the fan assembly. It takes a narrow 13/16" open end wrench, I think is the size. You might need penetrating oil on the rear end of the shaft, there is a nut and threads there. The nut is held in the slot, DO NOT turn the nut with a wrench, it will ruin the slot that holds the nut in place.
Use a light and look in, if the hood is on it, and you can see how it is made.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2035.jpg

A Cub starter will turn over a Cub engine wherever the engine is stopped, it doesn't have to be stopped in any certain position. Mine is 6 volts, and has worked normally for decades.
It sounds like you need to put a good battery in the battery box, and connect the tractor's cables to it, and try starting it, or doing the compression test.
Some jumper cables nowadays are light wire, even though the outside of them looks big, and won't carry enough current to crank an engine much.

Here is the 1955 Cub owner's manual. The experts on here recommend that people read it. It has much info about operation, maintenance, and lubrication. It has pics of how the Cub originally looked. It has a table of contents on page 1.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

Edit, the fan shaft wrench size is 13/16" on my Cub.

[Waif]

Alright, I have come to a decision point. Do i continue on????

So i think i partially figured out what was going on. I can turn the fan by hand and cycle the engine.... but there is a point in the cycle at which there is increased resistance. The belts are super tight and based on what i read in the manuals, there should be some give in the tension. So i disconnected generator belt and that spun free so i dont think it is restricting movement. It looks like i would need to remove radiator to loosen the fan belt but i am not prepared to do that this morning. Need to take a break an asses my options.

To get the engine cycling, i would essentially manually advance it past the point of resistance and then the starter could turn the motor. Maybe it is normal to have a point of increased resistance and a strong starter can just power through it? But this starter with the current power source(hooked up directly to running truck), cant get around that resistance.

Compression test -> inconclusive. I borrowed a compression test tool from oreilly's and it seems like crap. Cant get the hose on tight so there was air escaping and not building any pressure. It was just hissing around the unit. With the engine cycling and spark plugs out, i could put my fingers over the holes and feel the push & pull of air. Is that just the amount caused by the pistons moving up and down, i dont know. If the compression should be north of 100 psi and I think about how much pressure is in my bike tires at 100psi, the air movement didnt seem that strong. Regardless, seems like i am going to have to get into some more involved engine work.

Here are my questions?

1.) Is there a chance that the fan belt/fan is what is restricting the movement or is that unlikely?

1.) on a scale of 1 to 10(10 being complete engine rebuild), how complex does the point of increased resistance and the compression symptoms sound? My gut tells me that i would need to yank apart the engine. Which frankly sounds like fun if i had the free time and a place to do the work over a long period of time. But i dont so to not anger my wife anymore, i need some sort of estimate to give her as to what i would be getting into.

2.) if i walk away from this project, can anyone give me a rough market value for a non-running cub w/o implements in Wisconsin?

Well,were I involved in the decision making I would suggest that it having been your Gramp's that it is worth the patience to learn on. What you learn ,besides patience can help on other things too. Take your time.....

Did you change the location of your ground cable to a bolt on the transmission case as suggested? The reason for the suggestion is that the battery box can get rusted / corroded to where current does not flow well. Current has to flow through the ground too!

You feel a bind when turning fanbelt by hand. When it binds you can back it an inch then pull your starter. Then look for gunk or hardpacked grease or dirt in a couple teeth of the ring gear.( the big one the starter drives.) I had cooked squished mouse in a few teeth of a riding mower. Gave same symptom you are writing of a binding area.

[potluck_kid]

Alright, after walking away for a couple of weeks, I am back at the Cub. Can't give it up just yet.

Developments since my last post:
1:) determined that the starter is working just fine. I put my truck battery back in the tractor but rather than using the positive terminal as the ground, i used the negative. As a result, the tractor is cranking great, no more issues there. my brother got one of my gpa's other cubs and i had borrowed his hand crank but luckily i didnt need it!

2.) Now that it is cranking and not starting, I have determined that I am not getting any sparks at the plugs. Lots of topics/discussions on this. I am starting with "the points"(trying to figure out what those are). Using this post as my starting point.

http://www.farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=14504

So question, I need to clean the fixed "point" and the "point" at the end of the arm that is moving with the shaft? And then gap properly.

Also, in the post referenced above, didnt get the whole felt thing.

If that does not resolve, then i will need to get a voltage meter and check where the "disconnect" is? Thanks!

[Eugene]

Compression tests next. I read previous posts to see if the compression tests were conducted. Appears not. No compression, tractor is not going to run.

[Kent F]

Good to see you're keeping the Cub in the family! Good Luck on your progress.
Your Grandfather is smiling.

Kent F.

[staninlowerAL]

To get a good understanding of the points, etc. download and study the GSS1012 manual from Quick Links tab at the top left corner of this page. With a volt meter or test light trace the current flow to a good ground from the battery to ignition switch to coil input to coil output to the distributor input post (with the wire disconnected from the post) to make sure the current flow is getting to that point. When you have established this current flow, reconnect the wire to the distributor input post and with the ignition switch in ON position, turn the crankshaft and check for a spark (arc) at the two contact surfaces of the points. NO SPARK, clean with a file until shiny bright (you might have to remove the points to do so). You should then have a spark each time the points open and close. Let us know what happens.

[Glen]

Hi,
The 2 point surfaces have to be clean, shiny and flat metal so electricity will go through the points, they burn and get dirty from use over just a few years. If they are dirty enough, no power will go through them, and the engine will not run.
They were made to be replaced with new ones, or I take them out and file them one at a time with a large file. Set the piece on a solid surface, and hold it steady while filing. Wipe off all filing with a clean rag.
You have to loosen the nut holding the end of the point spring to remove the point on the right. Remove both points to file or replace them.
If they are burned too much, they need replacing. Here is a listing at TM Tractor showing new points and condenser.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/367fp.htm

The condenser has to be good too, or the engine will not run.

Below are pages from the Cub owner's manual showing the points and telling about servicing them. Info is in the owner's manual I posted above also.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2041.jpg

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2042.jpg

NAPA has the points and condenser too, here are the numbers.

Points, CS 1600
Condenser, IH 200

There is a felt in the end of the shaft the rotor goes on, oil it some with motor oil, and let it absorb in, then put the rotor on and see if it will turn back and forth slightly, it only turns a small amount. You will have to hold the drive end so that won't turn. The shaft has to be free turning, so the spark advance works right.
If the assembly was on the engine, the drive end could not turn with the engine shut off.

Some more light so we could see in your distributor would have been good.

[potluck_kid]

Well i got the points cleaned. Took a wire wheel to them. They seem worn though because the block that hits the square spindle is worn at an angle so there is not a very predictable gap. Regardless, I have a spark in there. And now have spark at my plugs now. Minor victory.

That brings us to the carburetor. not working. Cant get it to start. I had some puffs of smoke come out of the exhaust but that was it. I have suction(when cranking engine with air box disconnected, it is pulling in air). It seems i have a ton of gas just sitting in the carb. Like when i was trying to start it with choke on. Then i would stop and release choke and gas would come flushing out of the air intake. And i have a gas drip coming from carb. Maybe the float is stuck open? Too much gas in the system? Probably need to disassemble and clean carb but that is my status update for today.

[Don McCombs]

Since it is an updraft carburetor, gas coming back out of the carb in a "no start" situation is normal. However, if you have not yet cleaned the carb, you probably should. Look at the parts diagram before you start. Be sure to pull the two halves straight away from each other. Do not twist or tilt them apart.

[staninlowerAL]

OK, glad you got the spark issue cleared. If the points metal is pitted they should be replaced. Your comments about the carb are all valid and if the tractor has not been run in a long time, expect one or more valves to be stuck. Remove the cover plate behind the carb and turn the crank while watching the valves move up and down. You can use a spray penetrating lube and a soda straw to lube them from the spark plug hole as well as spray lube the valve stems below. Any excess will lube the cylinders or run down into the oil pan, neither will hurt anything. Check with a feeler gauge and adjust the valve tappets to .015. If you disassemble the carb, be careful and pull the top and bottom halves straight apart without any side motion to avoid breaking the idle tube jet which is screwed into the top half and sticks down into the bowl of the bottom half. You'll need a new gasket and perhaps a new needle and seat. Set the float to the proper height and clean the inlet screen where the fuel line connects to the carb (if it's still there). Clean the main jet and spray carb cleaner through the idle tube jet. It's extremely small (about .002) so don't enlarge it any. When you reassemble the carb, tighten the screws enough to not leak but don't over-tighten them to avoid warping the top half of the carb. Let us know what happens.
EDIT: Don types faster than I do and talks less.

[staninlowerAL]

Maybe a little inspiration will help:

[Glen]

Hi,
The Cub's IH carburetor is easy to work on.

I would make sure all the passages in the carb are open and clean. Dirt settles in the bottom passages of the carb, but can be anywhere in it.
Blow them out with air while it is apart. Wear your safety glasses when using the air.
You might need to use a small wire to open the passages if they are plugged. Then use carb cleaner and try to get them fully open.
Below are pages from the Cub parts manual showing the IH carb.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-12.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 012-13.jpg

Shake the float slightly while it is off the carb, and feel if it is dry inside, or has gas in it.
It has to be dry and sealed, with no gas in it. If it leaks, it needs replacing.

The float level and float drop need setting exactly while it is apart. Some of the guys on here have said that their carb would not work right until they set the float exactly right.
Below is a page from the Cub service manual showing the float level and float drop.
The IH carb is in the upper pics on the page. Turn the top half upside down like the Zenith carb in the lower right is shown, to set the float level. Use the IH carb specs if you have an IH carb.
Notice that the float level for the IH carb is set without the gasket in place.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 002-09.jpg

The needle and seat wears out after years of use, then they won't seal, and gas drips on the ground when the tractor is sitting. Then they need replacing.
Below is a listing for a new needle and seat at TM Tractor. The all metal needle is the original style.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/fl/5183fp.htm

The main jet needs to be clean so it will run right, it is the brass colored bolt head on the lower side of the carb in the 1st pic below.
It screws out, remove it and clean it like it shows in the 2nd pic. Use a wire smaller than the hole, do not enlarge the hole, it has to be it's original size. Wash it out too.
The gasket on it might not seal well if it is old, and you reuse it.
TM Tractor has carb parts.