Brake confusion

[Ohio Tom]

Hi everybody!

First I'd like to say thanks for all of the great info I've already gotten from this forum, and I apologize if the answer I'm looking for is already here somewhere. Believe me, I tried to find it!

Tuesday I bought my first Cub, in fact my first tractor.

According to the serial number stamped on the plate by the steering column, it is a 1956 (SN 198253) I have attached a picture of the tractor, sorry for the poor quality; it's actually the picture from the seller I got it from. Since this is Ohio and it's snowed or rained pretty much since I got it, I haven't had a chance to take better pics.

So far the only oops (I've found) in my pre-purchase examination was I never thought to unlock the brakes and check them independently of each other. Turns out the right brake is shot. Not the end of the world, since I figured there would be something other than tune-up work I'd need to do right off the bad. And I was considering widening the wheels anyway for better stability, and fixing the brakes gives me a great excuse to pull the weights and wheels off.

My question is this: According to the parts list, the brakes for my machine should be the newer style, since the older one-piece was used from 501-173600.
However, I am 100% sure that the brakes currently installed are the old style. What is going on?

I am wondering if it is possible that the SN is incorrect, or if the final drives and brakes were replaced with the old style, or if everything else is correct and someone just put the old style brakes in a post 173600 machine?
Is it possible for the old style brakes to have been retrofitted in a newer model?
I know the toggle brakes are considered better, but I'd have to obtain linkages, toggles bands and pins, vs just the one piece linkage and band. I guess my main problem is I would really like to know what my options are before I tear into it. Sitting on stands while I wait for parts to slowly arrive is an indignity I'd rather not put her through.

If worse comes to worse and I have to take things apart to see what I need, supposing I find that the final drives are correct for my serial number, should I go for the added expense of replacing all the toggle hardware or stick with the old style?
I plan on replacing the brakes on both sides, so matching up different types is not an issue.

Any help or advice is much appreciated!

Thanks,

Tom

[Barnyard]

Tom, you have a pre 1954 hood so that leads me to believe your Cub is also, which would explain the older style brakes. It is quite possible the bolster had been replaced with a newer one at one time and the newer serial tag stayed with it. Grab a couple different cast codes and we can get a better idea what year it is.

[Bob McCarty]

Here is a link to the section of TM Tractor's gallery that shows the rear finals. You can see the difference in the rear casting for the one piece and toggle brakes.
http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gfi/gfi_001.htm
The non-toggle will fit in the toggle finals, but not vice versa.

Bob

[Ohio Tom]

Tom, you have a pre 1954 hood so that leads me to believe your Cub is also, which would explain the older style brakes. It is quite possible the bolster had been replaced with a newer one at one time and the newer serial tag stayed with it. Grab a couple different cast codes and we can get a better idea what year it is.

Thanks for the quick response, that is interesting to know about the hood!

I did take some pics of casting numbers this afternoon, but I don't know how to use them for dating purposes, so your help would be much appreciated:

On the clutch housing forward of the brake petals on the right side is 351686-R2

Just to the left of the oil filler cap is 251841R6 I believe the 8 is correct; it could be an "S"? I took pictures of the numbers before it was dark out and my picture isn't great for that one.

On the right final drive is 3508 6 R2

That's all the numbers I could find in the five minutes I wanted to be out in the cold!

Tom

[Ohio Tom]

Here is a link to the section of TM Tractor's gallery that shows the rear finals. You can see the difference in the rear casting for the one piece and toggle brakes.
http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gfi/gfi_001.htm
The non-toggle will fit in the toggle finals, but not vice versa.

Bob

Bob, thanks, very helpful link; that answers my question about the brakes. The casting number on my final is the same as the non-toggle in the picture.

Now the question is, What year is my cub really?

[Barnyard]

Tom, the numbers you gave are part numbers. A cast date would look something like 8•23•S or variations. If you can get the serial number and cast date from the engine that would be most helpful. Here is a page that shows where to find the dates. http://www.tmtractor.com/id/castdate_loc.htm

[Dale Finch]

As suggested, find some the casting codes and here is a table from TM TRACTORS one of our forum sponsors):
http://www.tmtractor.com/id/id_004.htm

August 26, 1947 Use the chart on the right to translate the letter code into a year. For example, this picture shows a cylinder block cast date of 8*26*Q, which was August 26, 1947. The number below the casting date is 251341R1, which is the cylinder block part number.
This example is 6*9*Y, or June 9, 1953.

1947 Q
1948 R
1949 S
1950 T
1951* U
1951* V
1951* W
1952 X
1953 Y
1954 Z
1955** A
1956 B
1957 C
1958 D
1959 E
1960 F
1961 G
1962 H
1963 J
1964 K
1965 L
1966 M
1967 N
1968 O
1969 P
1970 R
1971 S
1972 T
1973 W
1974 X
1975 Y
1976 Z
1977** A
1978 B
1979 C
* Note: in 1951 several
letters were used
**Note: in 1955 and 1977
the letters started over

Note: Barnyard, I always was a slow typist!!

[Ohio Tom]

Barnyard and Dale,

Ok, so engine casting number is 5 2 X, which according to TM Tractor's chart means it was cast May 2, 1952.

I was sweating it a little because I've already started doing some tune up work to my cub. The owner's manual that the guy gave me is for a later model than mine now appears to be. I have noticed that the hood in the manual was "boxier" than mine, but I hadn't given it much though. Luckily it appears that things like spark plug and points gap didn't change over the years. but I am stuck wondering what to use for a model number when ordering parts from now on?

[Ohio Tom]

Do I just pick a number between 144455 and 162283?

[Barnyard]

Tom, if you can read your engine serial number we might get you a little closer. It is located near where the arrow points in the pic.

Image from TM Tractor Parts.

[Ohio Tom]

Tom, if you can read your engine serial number we might get you a little closer. It is located near where the arrow points in the pic.

Barnyard, I went out in the cold and snow with a flashlight, and found the number: FCUBM 162785.

[Bob McCarty]

Tom, Raymond Durban has continued the compilation of a data base that was started earlier. Your engine # falls in the Nov/Dec range 1952. Apparently there was a strike in Sept-Oct of 1952 and no casting was done.

Bob

[Barnyard]

Tom, Raymond Durban has continued the compilation of a data base that was started earlier. Your engine # falls in the Nov/Dec range 1952. Apparently there was a strike in Sept-Oct of 1952 and no casting was done.

Bob

Which then would put the Cub in the 159053 to 162283 serial number range

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

The guys are covering you on determining year, but the no brakes on one side probably may be a drum that has come loose from shaft, or a leaky seal greasing the brake band.

[Ohio Tom]

Tom, Raymond Durban has continued the compilation of a data base that was started earlier. Your engine # falls in the Nov/Dec range 1952. Apparently there was a strike in Sept-Oct of 1952 and no casting was done.

Bob

Which then would put the Cub in the 159053 to 162283 serial number range

My hat's off to you guys! It's great to have an answer. I guess I should be glad the brake issue came up, otherwise who knows how long I'd have had the Johnny Cash's Cadillac of Cubs without realizing it

The guys are covering you on determining year, but the no brakes on one side probably may be a drum that has come loose from shaft, or a leaky seal greasing the brake band.

I'm fairly certain the band simply broken or rusted away; when I unlock the petal from the other one it drops WAY down, a lot farther than I think it could possibly go if it was still pinned in place. It does make me wonder what condition the drum will be in, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.