PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

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4thGen
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Zip Code: 06040
Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub

54A Blade
C22 Sickle mower
189 Two-way plow
59 Woods belly mower
Location: Manchester CT

PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby 4thGen » Mon May 22, 2023 10:29 am

I have been doing my reading on here as I'm trying to get my 22 mower set up properly, but it has been a bit of a chore since I don't think it was ever properly set up or cared for after the factory built it. The mower assembly was obviously used a ton and repaired a few times before I got my hands on it, with the torque tube mount welded, mixed knife sections were installed (serrated top, bottom, and flat), and various brand guards used (mostly IH but a few Herschel/misc).

  1. There is significant wobble and vibration at the drive pulley, and the whole tractor shakes a decent amount at 1/2 throttle - is this indicative of a bad bushing on the flywheel shaft, or is it more likely that the pulley/shaft was bent and I should replace both the shaft and pulley? The PTO shaft can be wiggled slightly so I know that bushing likely needs to be replaced, but the lower pulley has a ton of seemingly random deflection.
    --- see video at bottom!
  2. There is a bit of play between the knife head and the rear/front knife head caps (parts 11 and 19 in the parts manual) that allows for some slop and slapping. I removed the shims below both caps and got the gap down to appx 1/16" at the rear cap but the front cap still seems to be around 4/32-5/32" above the knife head. Is this a small enough gap, or do I need a new/replacement front cap to tighten things up? The part on there now is an unmarked piece of (almost) flat casting with a slight upward curve.

I have set (hammer tapped) the knife clips down to get the knife sections closer to the ledger plates, as the sections were essentially floating 3/8" above the ledgers for the entire length of cut. The wearing plates under the clips are in great shape and have I adjusted them forward for better contact with the bar. I straightened the bar as best I could while it has the blades on it. A project for later this summer will be replacing the individual blades and fully straightening the bar, as it was bent in just about every direction possible and a few knife sections are still floating.

After my adventures mowing with the tractor last year I have had the drag bar shortened a few inches so I can properly set the outer edge lead to approximately 1-1/4" and I have replaced the broken pitman arm. I have also leveled the blade (it was angled upwards in the front) and properly adjusted the shoes for cut height.


https://youtu.be/XETjanxb1kg

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tmays
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Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby tmays » Mon May 22, 2023 2:55 pm

Lot of moving parts that can contribute to vibration. Keep in mind some vibration is inevitable. Bushings and each end of shaft need to be checked for up and down play. Pto pulley splines should be good and pulled tight to the pto. The large pulley on shaft looks like something bent or loose going on there unless it’s optical illusion. Hinge pin should fit well and machine washers installed on it. Inspect all wear points. Pitman arm bushing or bearing on flywheel should have no play. Keep in mind the higher the outer end of mower goes above horizontal, the more it will vibrate. I’m sure there’s another item or two to consider. Personally, when I’m installing a mower, I break it down in sections and test things by hand along the way to eliminate any possible problems. Pain in the butt to get it all together then have to start all over. Don’t ask how I know
:lol:
Thomas

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Glen
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Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby Glen » Mon May 22, 2023 5:50 pm

4thGen wrote:There is significant wobble and vibration at the drive pulley, and the whole tractor shakes a decent amount at 1/2 throttle

Hi,
1, If the rear lower pulley is moving around, and the bushing in the shaft is not worn much, it could be the tube is loose some in the rear bracket, and moves around when the mower is running, that can make a clattering noise. Look closely and see if that is what it is doing. It is how they are made.
The mowers make the Cub shake when the Cub is not moving, when moving or mowing, I don't notice shaking with my mower.

2, The play or wear at the knife head can make noise when the mower is running. It will work, but it can make noise.
If you want to buy new parts, try to get as little up and down play as possible, but the knife should slide freely.
On the mowers I have seen, only the rear cap has a part number cast in it. The front cap is a flat piece of metal with a slight bend, like you said, and no part number on it, I think.
You can oil the moving parts and help reduce wear.

When tightening, or bending the hold down clips, don't get them too tight, on the knives.
I have found that it can make the knife bar bind when the mower is raised, the outer end of the bar bends down from the weight of it when raised.
The knife bar has to work freely even when the bar is raised.
I sent you a PM.

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Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby phill_mi » Mon May 22, 2023 9:00 pm

In one of my PM conversations with Tim (tst) I mentioned that my C22 pulley wobbled and was worn out in the middle. He indicated that he rebuilds these pulleys. You might want to PM tst for more info on that option.

4thGen
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Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:32 pm
Zip Code: 06040
Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub

54A Blade
C22 Sickle mower
189 Two-way plow
59 Woods belly mower
Location: Manchester CT

Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby 4thGen » Tue May 23, 2023 10:28 am

Thanks! I checked this morning and the tube is tight. The pulley/shaft assembly has just under 5/64 in/out play (a 1/8" washer is a bit too thick to slip in from the side) but there is no vertical or horizontal play . I'll try pulling the pulley later this week (left hand threads) and checking it for roundness. The pitman arm (bearing type) is tight with no play.

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Glen
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Location: Wa.

Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby Glen » Tue May 23, 2023 6:45 pm

I think too much end play in the long shaft can make noise when the mower is running.
Try to make the end play as little as possible, but the mower still turns freely.
If you have a lathe, you can cut out the center of washers that are the right OD and thickness, if needed.

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Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby tst » Tue May 23, 2023 8:16 pm

too much end play hammers the shaft and housing, shim the end play out

4thGen
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:32 pm
Zip Code: 06040
Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub

54A Blade
C22 Sickle mower
189 Two-way plow
59 Woods belly mower
Location: Manchester CT

Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby 4thGen » Thu May 25, 2023 6:16 am

I was able to sickle mow the field yesterday just before the rain and in time for the family gathering this weekend. I find that 2nd gear and 3-notches below full throttle gets most of the grass to fall off the blade when cut. Any slower ground speed and I start carrying around grass. I'll try and remove the pulley and check it for trueness, and if good, reinstall with the appropriate thickness shim to remove end play.

In a few weeks I'll also source all new knife sections and rivets, as a few are loose.

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Don McCombs
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Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby Don McCombs » Thu May 25, 2023 11:05 am

Cub-22 Mower Parts.pdf
(42.54 KiB) Downloaded 195 times
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

Image
Proud Member of Maryland Chapter 39

The best teachers are those who show you where to look, but don't tell you what to see.
A. K. Trenfor

4thGen
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:32 pm
Zip Code: 06040
Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub

54A Blade
C22 Sickle mower
189 Two-way plow
59 Woods belly mower
Location: Manchester CT

Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby 4thGen » Thu May 25, 2023 1:10 pm

After my above reply I became ambitious and pulled the pulley. The 1-1/4" impact socket was just a touch too small, so I went at it with a large adjustable wrench. To keep the shaft from spinning I placed some scrap 2x4" underneath the counterweight. There were 3 washers/shims behind the pulley, and the two larger diameter were off-center, allowing for endplay in/out. After I properly oriented them the endplay was removed. I also added a washer to remove slop at the coupling/pivot bar.

Pic of how I kept the shaft from spinning while unscrewing the pulley

Image



Don McCombs wrote:Cub-22 Mower Parts.pdf



Awesome, a cross-reference chart for the parts! Thank you!


--------------





Before & After
Image

Image

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Don McCombs
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Posts: 17658
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:45 am
Zip Code: 21550
Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1957 Farmall Cub w/FH
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake

Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby Don McCombs » Thu May 25, 2023 9:35 pm

That parts list is several years old, so some of those parts may be NLA. The list works for the 22 mower, also.
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

Image
Proud Member of Maryland Chapter 39

The best teachers are those who show you where to look, but don't tell you what to see.
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Glen
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Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby Glen » Fri May 26, 2023 7:05 pm

4thGen wrote:In a few weeks I'll also source all new knife sections and rivets, as a few are loose.

Hi,
The Cub looks good in your pictures.
There were places that you could buy a new knife bar, complete with serrated, or plain knives, for the Cub 22 mower. I think one was Webb Cutting Components. They are online.
I'm not sure if they have them anymore.
In your pic it looks like one nut on the muffler clamp might be gone, but I'm not sure, it's hard to see it in the pic.
If the mower has problems with cut grass plugging at the outer end, they make a double knife that is supposed to help prevent that. It goes only on the outer end. Below is a pic.
The Cub 22 mower originally has a guard under the front of the flywheel.
Below is a pic of it. Pics are from TM Tractor Parts. :)
Attachments
Cub section.jpg
Cub 22 mower 7.jpg

4thGen
5+ Years
5+ Years
Posts: 47
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:32 pm
Zip Code: 06040
Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub

54A Blade
C22 Sickle mower
189 Two-way plow
59 Woods belly mower
Location: Manchester CT

Re: PTO and sickle mower setup, drive pulley wobble

Postby 4thGen » Sat May 27, 2023 10:29 am

Glen wrote:
4thGen wrote:In a few weeks I'll also source all new knife sections and rivets, as a few are loose.

Hi,
The Cub looks good in your pictures.
There were places that you could buy a new knife bar, complete with serrated, or plain knives, for the Cub 22 mower. I think one was Webb Cutting Components. They are online.
I'm not sure if they have them anymore.
In your pic it looks like one nut on the muffler clamp might be gone, but I'm not sure, it's hard to see it in the pic.
If the mower has problems with cut grass plugging at the outer end, they make a double knife that is supposed to help prevent that. It goes only on the outer end. Below is a pic.
The Cub 22 mower originally has a guard under the front of the flywheel.
Below is a pic of it. Pics are from TM Tractor Parts. :)



Glen, thanks! The muffler clamp does have both nuts, it's tough to see in that photo.

I do have a double knife section at the outer end of the blade, but there is a bit of a gap between it and the ledger plate that I cant seem to get rid of. Maybe I need a bigger hammer!

I have seen the flywheel guard in the past and will be ordering one later this summer, thanks for the reminder.


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