Amending Soil

The Cub Club -- Questions and answers to all of your Cub related issues.
Forum rules
Notice: For sale and wanted posts are not allowed in this forum. Please use our free classifieds or one of our site sponsors for your tractor and parts needs.
User avatar
tmays
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 3448
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:59 pm
Zip Code: 39154
Tractors Owned: 1969 Farmall Cub
1952 Cub
1942 Farmall H
Location: Raymond, MS

Amending Soil

Postby tmays » Mon Apr 03, 2023 12:49 pm

Got a long way to go, but been slowly adding leaves to my garden and plowing them under. I usually do this in the fall, but came across these leaves already bagged on FB marketplace recently. Using the ‘52 cub with Fasthitch plow. One day I’ll get the garden amended. Of course, it never sends but this clay based soil got to be changed! :lol:

D6980B2D-9E8A-4AA7-A0E9-1F9635C47147.jpeg
Thomas

User avatar
Don McCombs
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 17588
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:45 am
Zip Code: 21550
Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1957 Farmall Cub w/FH
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake

Re: Amending Soil

Postby Don McCombs » Mon Apr 03, 2023 3:16 pm

Thomas, if those are oak leaves, be sure to test your pH.
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

Image
Proud Member of Maryland Chapter 39

The best teachers are those who show you where to look, but don't tell you what to see.
A. K. Trenfor

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 20451
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: Amending Soil

Postby Eugene » Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:20 am

Tillage radish. Inexpensive clay buster.
I have an excuse. CRS.

User avatar
tmays
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 3448
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:59 pm
Zip Code: 39154
Tractors Owned: 1969 Farmall Cub
1952 Cub
1942 Farmall H
Location: Raymond, MS

Re: Amending Soil

Postby tmays » Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:26 am

Don McCombs wrote:Thomas, if those are oak leaves, be sure to test your pH.

Everything I’ve read points to a possible nitrogen deficiency. Never seen anything pertaining to ph. Of course there is tannic acid, but my understanding is that it is usually not a problem. But I do need to check the pH. In fact, I need to do a soil test. We go the organic route, so it’s been a slow go to get it to where I want. I should just splurge and get a couple loads or more of organic compost.
Thomas

User avatar
tmays
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 3448
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:59 pm
Zip Code: 39154
Tractors Owned: 1969 Farmall Cub
1952 Cub
1942 Farmall H
Location: Raymond, MS

Re: Amending Soil

Postby tmays » Tue Apr 04, 2023 8:31 am

Eugene wrote:Tillage radish. Inexpensive clay buster.

I do that. But in the past, garden supply folks I buy from don’t have enough seed. And not that it does what radish does, but I plant greens also that I plow in in the spring. But the freeze this year killed off my whole tillage crop. This year I intend to order some in bulk.
Thomas

ScottyD'sdad
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
Posts: 7523
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:00 pm
Zip Code: 02769
Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Ma. Rehoboth

Re: Amending Soil

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:27 am

pH is most important soil test. Ability for the plants to use the fertility in the soil is based on the pH they like best, usually 6.5 to 7. for most veggies.
I have a chart that shows the fertilizer availability at various pH.
Ed
Attachments
Balanced-pH-Increases-Fertilizer-Efficiency.gif
Image
Member of Chapter 18, and National
Circle of Safety

SamsFarm
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1853
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:21 pm
Zip Code: 44410
Tractors Owned: 1968 Cub Fast Hitch
LF-1 Platform Carrier
144 Cultivators
L-F194 Plow(s)
F38 Disk
L-F3 Spring Tooth Harrow
CS Bell No. 60 Grain Mill on a unmodified Fast Hitch Disk hitch prong
Home Made Fast Hitch Potato Plow
54A Blade

Couple 1948 Cubs
172 Runner Planter
53 Fertilizer
Cub-3 Field Cultivator
Cub-189 Two Way Plow
Cub-22 Sickle Bar Mower
Mechanical Transplanter with side mount barrel (needs a fast hitch adapter) :)

Misc Belly Mowers

Wish List
International 100 Fast Hitch Blade
Mott Fast Hitch Flail Mower

Wish Wish Wish List
Fast Hitch Rotary Hoe
4E hammer mill
Location: Ne Ohio

Re: Amending Soil

Postby SamsFarm » Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:56 am

Leaves are a carbon. Carbon is looking to bond with nitrogen. Each time you add leaves and plow them in they are bonding with your readily available nitrogen.
Tying up your nitrogen to help aid in the decomposition of those leaves.

At least thats how I understand it!

Sure they are a great addition of organic matter, but at a cost.

The cost being that if you are not adding the appropriate amount of nitrogen with your leaves, then your ground nitrogen is being bound to the leaves and unavailable to plants until the decomposition process is complete, then it becoming a slow release of nitrogen back in the soil.

Further complicating things, as mentioned above is the acidic part as mentioned above.

You'll need to be doing something to combat rise in acidity too!

User avatar
Super A
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 5246
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:53 am
Zip Code: 28521
Tractors Owned: Collector of Super As, Corn Pickers, and a buncha other junk. Even a Cub now and then...
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Jacksonville area

Re: Amending Soil

Postby Super A » Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:45 am

tmays wrote:
Don McCombs wrote:Thomas, if those are oak leaves, be sure to test your pH.

Everything I’ve read points to a possible nitrogen deficiency. Never seen anything pertaining to ph. Of course there is tannic acid, but my understanding is that it is usually not a problem. But I do need to check the pH. In fact, I need to do a soil test. We go the organic route, so it’s been a slow go to get it to where I want. I should just splurge and get a couple loads or more of organic compost.



pH is tied to nutrient availability. In other words it can be in the soil but the low pH binds it up so the plant can't get it. Soil test regularly (use your state's lab, not a test from the garden center) and lime according to recommendations. Be sure pH is right before you do anything else.

Where you can really get in trouble with N availability is using stuff like fresh sawdust with a high carbon : nitrogen ratio. Leaves should be less problematic.

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
Celebrating 75 years of the Super A: 1947-2022

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 20451
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: Amending Soil

Postby Eugene » Tue Apr 04, 2023 10:52 am

tmays wrote:
Eugene wrote:Tillage radish. Inexpensive clay buster.

I do that. But in the past, garden supply folks I buy from don’t have enough seed. And not that it does what radish does, but I plant greens also that I plow in in the spring. But the freeze this year killed off my whole tillage crop. This year I intend to order some in bulk.
I get my seed from MFA, a local farm store. They have bulk seed on hand. Pick up any amount I need. Considerably cheaper than orders.

Acreage, have about 1/10th acre rock and clay planted to fruit and nut trees. Soil tests, good, lacking humus. Mow it and broadcast kitchen vegetable scraps on it. Spring, have picked up old hay bales, free, haul off.

Edit for spelling.
Last edited by Eugene on Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
I have an excuse. CRS.

User avatar
Don McCombs
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 17588
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:45 am
Zip Code: 21550
Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1957 Farmall Cub w/FH
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake

Re: Amending Soil

Postby Don McCombs » Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:00 am

Chicken or turkey litter is a good natural source of nitrogen. You need to put it on in the Fall, so it has a chance to mellow over winter.
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

Image
Proud Member of Maryland Chapter 39

The best teachers are those who show you where to look, but don't tell you what to see.
A. K. Trenfor

User avatar
tmays
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 3448
Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 8:59 pm
Zip Code: 39154
Tractors Owned: 1969 Farmall Cub
1952 Cub
1942 Farmall H
Location: Raymond, MS

Re: Amending Soil

Postby tmays » Tue Apr 04, 2023 11:50 am

Fellers, I run two garden plots. Four actually, but one is for taters and one is for my wife to grow stuff that we don’t plant a lot of each plant. This plot you see is taking a break while I amend it. Will be adding compost as I can afford it. These leaves happened to be already bagged. All I had to do was pick them up and spread. I will continue to do this in the fall and they will be composted by spring. I do need to start shredding the leaves first.
Thomas

ScottyD'sdad
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
Posts: 7523
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:00 pm
Zip Code: 02769
Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Ma. Rehoboth

Re: Amending Soil

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Apr 04, 2023 1:31 pm

SamsFarm wrote:Leaves are a carbon. Carbon is looking to bond with nitrogen. Each time you add leaves and plow them in they are bonding with your readily available nitrogen.
Tying up your nitrogen to help aid in the decomposition of those leaves.

At least thats how I understand it!

Sure they are a great addition of organic matter, but at a cost.

The cost being that if you are not adding the appropriate amount of nitrogen with your leaves, then your ground nitrogen is being bound to the leaves and unavailable to plants until the decomposition process is complete, then it becoming a slow release of nitrogen back in the soil.

Further complicating things, as mentioned above is the acidic part as mentioned above.

You'll need to be doing something to combat rise in acidity too!


The nitrogen tie up ia short term, easily compensated for by adding a small mount of nitrogen. Some wood ash, if you have it will neutralize acidity, tooE Ed
Image
Member of Chapter 18, and National
Circle of Safety

User avatar
Super A
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 5246
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2004 10:53 am
Zip Code: 28521
Tractors Owned: Collector of Super As, Corn Pickers, and a buncha other junk. Even a Cub now and then...
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Jacksonville area

Re: Amending Soil

Postby Super A » Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:18 pm

Don McCombs wrote:Chicken or turkey litter is a good natural source of nitrogen. You need to put it on in the Fall, so it has a chance to mellow over winter.


Rolling down your window and taking a big whiff as you travel on the backroads most anywhere in eastern NC right now would disprove that statement...... :D

Litter is good, but the amount of N per pound isn't that high. We apply it here in tons per acre, rather than pounds. My theory has always been that the micronutrients and the organic matter help as much as the N, P, K. Over-applying can get you in a mess too.

Storing it, hauling it, and spreading it can be a huge PITA. When I was actively helping on the farm, I liked fall applied litter simply because there was no rush to get a crop planted on time. In the spring, the company was always running late loading out the birds, or the cleanout crew was a week (or two) behind, or it was raining every other day. You do loose a little bit of its zing as far as N goes spreading in the fall but I'd rather be able to plant on time. None of these factors are that big a deal in a garden situation like tmays has, but if costs were the same I'd rather use commercial fertilizer and be able to plant on time.

Sorry for the ramble.

Al
White Demo Super A Restoration Updates

Let us pray for farmers and all who prepare the soil for planting, that the seeds they sow may lead to a bountiful harvest.
Celebrating 75 years of the Super A: 1947-2022

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 20451
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: Amending Soil

Postby Eugene » Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:40 am

Super A wrote:
Don McCombs wrote:Chicken or turkey litter is a good natural source of nitrogen. You need to put it on in the Fall, so it has a chance to mellow over winter.
Rolling down your window and taking a big whiff as you travel on the backroads most anywhere in eastern NC right now would disprove that statement...... :D
Winter in central Iowa, farmers would hall sludge from the Des Moines city sewage system and spread on fields. Warm days and the smell was intensive.
I have an excuse. CRS.


Return to “Farmall Cub”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Greenthumbfarms, Jim Becker and 2 guests