1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

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kabuti2
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1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby kabuti2 » Sat Aug 20, 2022 8:48 pm

Hey, recent acquisition. The diminutive machine is in very good condition, in my view, other than some general maintenance requirements. She, "Mighty-Mite", lol, had been converted to 12 volt long ago, perhaps in the dark ages, however, the ancient alternator is wired to a voltage regulator by at least 4 wires & then there is an solenoid & apparently a relay under the dash. Wiring converges upon a post of the ammeter, light switch, starter button & non-origional, toggle kill switch. The tractor is equipped with a magneto. I know zero about 1 wire alternators but researching this forum has me seriously pondering replacing the entire mess with such, as my preference lies with simplicity over complication. I have the 12 volt battery, (the aforementioned alternator isn't hooked up) so we jumped started it. I plan on using a hand-crank, primarily for starting as I regularly crank a much larger (VG4D) & am used to it, although using the cranking motor occasionally. The battery system would mainly be for lights. Any suggestions? Thanks!

staninlowerAL
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Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:04 am

Is the magneto a truly functioning installation without an external coil? i.e. is there a coil wire from the square cap to the center of the distributor cap? If yes, then your "Mighty-Mite" is running on the mag. From your other info one can conclude that the starter cable is connected to a post on the starter and activated by the solenoid button. You can simplify the wiring by purchasing/installing a one wire denso clone alternator for less than $50, connected directly to the 12v battery. No further wiring is required and this will keep the battery charged. Any other electrical devices (lights, etc.) can be fed from the battery. One step further and a voltmeter to replace the amp gauge will tell you the condition of the battery charge. JMHO
EDIT: One more post and you will have access to the manuals at the Quick Links tab, top left corner of this page, to view and download. Invaluable information at your fingertips.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

kabuti2
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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby kabuti2 » Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:42 am

Yes, functioning magneto & no external coil. Engine rebuilt 30+ yrs ago. That is what we were hoping to accomplish & yes, have place for voltmeter in instrument panel. Thanks

staninlowerAL
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Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:32 am

Congratulations on your find. Now you should be able to access the manuals which also include attachments both OEM and a lot of aftermarket ones. Browse this site and you will find lots of tried and true tips from other members. The HOW TO section is a treasure chest of good information.
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby Eugene » Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:27 am

kabuti2 wrote:My preference lies with simplicity over complication. I have the 12 volt battery.
Simplicity is the single wire alternator. Reliability, inexpensive, and it it fails, prompt replacement from any parts store. I prefer the Delco clone because it is carried by local auto parts stores.

If the old 6 volt wiring is still in good condition, use it.

6 volt starter will easily handle 12 volts. No need to change to 12 volts. Starter parts are available and new starters can be purchased off the internet.
I have an excuse. CRS.

kabuti2
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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby kabuti2 » Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:16 am

O.k., I'll check into the Delco. I have waded thru about 123 threads so far on this forum & am impressed with the courtesy & expertise. The starter was wired to a button & the long lever was permanently engaged with baling wire, which I removed but I believe the switch on the starter itself needs replacement. As for the wiring, I don't think there is much "original" to it.

staninlowerAL
10+ Years
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Posts: 4943
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:34 pm
Zip Code: 36558
Tractors Owned: Cubs: (3)'49's, (1 is for parts), (1)'57 IH Cub LoBoy w/FH, (2)154 Number Series Loboys, (1 is for parts), '76 Longstripe w/FH, Mowers: C-22, Bush Hog 412, Pennington 59, Woods RM42CF, Woods 42, assorted FCub plows, planters, discs, etc. OTHERS: '49 AC B & Ind. Sickle mower, '61 AC D12 Ser 2, '52 8N, '56 Ferguson 35 Deluxe, '47 & '49 Avery V, '53 MM BG (offset), '51 JD M (regular), '56 JD 420C, with Blade and fire plow, '85 JD 850 (Yanmar) w/72" belly mower, '76? Yanmar 2TR15 1500 & Bush Hog SQ42S-2 mower, '78? FORD Dexta, '86 FORD LGT14D & 48" Mower, (2)Cub Cadets & Mowers (MTD), (4) Sears Surburban's, other MTD mowers, Jeeps & other misc. "treasures"
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: AL (Southwest)

Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Aug 21, 2022 2:38 pm

I have had the "nub" contact on the starter replaced by a threaded stud for better fasting of the cable when using a solenoid type ignition. It is soldered inside the housing and any skilled rebuilder can do the replacement. Later models with 12v system came that way. However, a 12v cub starter will not fit into the available space that a 6v starter has. BTDT so that's the reason for the change to the 6v starter.
This is the clone I made reference to, about 4.5--5 inches so it will fit easily under the hood, internal regulator, self exciting at low rpm.
YM 1500 alt5.jpg
Stan in LA (lower AL)
USAF & Reserves, Reg ARMY, ARMY NG (AL)

kabuti2
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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby kabuti2 » Sun Aug 21, 2022 3:46 pm

I removed the old regulater & alternator, which was almost bigger than the engine, by unbolting the front of the hood & prying it out & it still barely came out. The top bracket was broken at the water pipe connection anyway, as it turned out. So much more room under there to scrape crud off & remove air cleaner now also!

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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby Dale Finch » Sun Aug 21, 2022 4:52 pm

While you have access, suggest you also lubricate the fan.

Check ALL the linkages from the Throttle lever to the governor, across the engine to the other side, then back to the carb. Make sure there is NO binding or slop in the connections. Liberally spray (with PB Blaster or equivalent) the governor lever (at the forward end of the long "throttle control rod")...it often is tight and will cause governor/rpm issues. Also, where the gov rockshaft rod enters the side of the governor (from right to left at the front of the engine) it has a tiny Woodruff key which can wear, causing some slop, which can cause delayed governor response or hunting.

Finally, check the condition of the governor spring (attached to the gov lever). If broken, weak, or loose, you can also have rpm response problems.
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Glen
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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby Glen » Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:10 pm

Hi,
You didn't say what brand of alternator the Cub has.

Below are pics of Delco alternators.
The 1st pic is one that uses an external voltage regulator. It was used on GM cars and trucks from about 1963 - 1972.

The 2nd pic shows the voltage regulator for it.

The 3rd pic shows the Delco used after that for years, it has an internal voltage regulator.
It was used by IH on Cubs beginning in 1975, until the end of Cubs.

They are both the same size externally.

The 4th pic shows an alt someone put on a Cub. They sell mounting brackets for them online, I think.
The alt is right side up. The bottom bracket bolts on the Cub where the bottom generator bracket goes on the engine.
The IH brackets are different, the alt is mostly upside down, and the upper water elbow is different, it has a mounting for the alt.

Taking the hood off makes it easier to work on the generator or alt, whichever the Cub has.
I suggest you take the hood off. :)
Attachments
Cub alt.jpg
Cub Delco 12 volt alt.jpg
Cub alt 10SI.jpg
Cub alt 10SI.jpg (11.65 KiB) Viewed 126 times
Cub alternator.jpg
Cub alternator.jpg (79.41 KiB) Viewed 126 times

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Glen
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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby Glen » Sun Aug 21, 2022 6:50 pm

Hi,
The Cub owner's manual can help you learn about maintenance that the Cub needs.

Below is the 1947 Cub owner's manual. The experts on here recommend people read it. It has lots of info about operation, maintenance, and lubrication. There is a table of contents on page 1.
It shows how Cubs originally looked in it. The lube section begins on page 14.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

It shows the electrical system that a 1947 Cub originally had.
Cubs made before mid 1964 originally had 6 volt, positive ground electrical systems.

Your Cub has been changed to 12 volts and an alternator, but you can read about what it originally had, if you want.
The charging system originally has a cutout, or Relay, IH called it on top of the generator, there is a pic on page 33 of the manual with the hood off, showing the electrical system.
It has a 4 position charge and light switch on the dash, to control the gen output.
It was before Cubs had voltage regulators, you had to choose the charge rate yourself.
The switch has 4 positions, L, low charge, H, high charge, D, dim front lights, and B, bright lights.
The electrical system info begins on page 32 of the manual, and using the switch is explained on page 34.
You should be able to see what it is charging on the ammeter, when the engine is running.
The engine has to be above idle speed for the gen to charge.

There is no Touch Control info in the 1947 owner's manual. It is in later owner's manuals.
The Touch Control uses Case IH Hy-Tran fluid. It is sold at Case IH dealers.
There are other brands, be sure it works with IH hydraulic systems before buying one.
The newer manuals tell how to check or change the Touch Control fluid, and remove the air from the system.
Be sure to check the fluid level with the arms in the rear, or down position. The manual says.

Below is a post I made about checking and changing the Touch Control fluid.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=106664

I would check or change all the oils before using the Cub. Using it with low oil in a gear housing can damage the parts in the housing.
There are 3 separate gear housings, with 3 separate oil levels to check, in the rear area of a Cub, the transmission, and 2 final drives.
The manual tells how to check and change the oils.

The transmissions in Cubs commonly get water in them, from rain, or condensation inside the housing over time.

The air cleaner is an oil bath air cleaner. Dirt that is sucked in settles to the bottom of the oil cup. It should have clean, light motor oil in the oil cup to work right.

Putting oil in the fan hub, that Dale talked about above, is shown on page 28 of the manual.
I use a clean pump oil can to pump oil into the hub.
The hub uses motor oil.

There is a search box at the top of the page, to the right of the Farmall Cub, you can find info in posts that have been made. :)

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Re: 1947 Project Cub Serial 9430 Alternater ?s

Postby kabuti2 » Sun Aug 21, 2022 7:05 pm

Proceeding On, I will check & clean/lube linkages, they are moving freely but need TLC, like everything else, for sure. Ive removed so much crud, theres only half as much tractor from when i began. The alt that was installed & which I just removed was the big-ole Delco Remy with an external Echlin regulator. I removed it all when I saw that the solenoid was rubbing on the underside of the fuel tank. None of this was in working order either & spagetti wires everywhere. I can make my own brackets or modify what was fabricated by P O. I did yank out the air filter & it wasn't bad inside excepting the "tube" was partly clogged & cup not filled. After I clean it I'll paint before it goes back. Yes, I'm going to loosen the "hood/tank" & replace the bolts with stainless also as I go.


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