Bearing retainer seal - right side

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CaperKen
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Bearing retainer seal - right side

Postby CaperKen » Fri May 13, 2022 12:44 pm

Hi -- I took the final drive and axle tube off of the right side of my '48 Cub yesterday. The tube was a mess of oil and gunk. Either the seal in the triangular bearing retainer is leaking or the O-ring is leaking or both. I was warned to not remove the bearing retainer unless the O-ring is leaking. Seems like a tough job that I'd like to avoid. Can anybody tell whether the leak shown in this photo is from the seal or the O-ring? Thanks in advance.
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bearing_retainer.png

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Re: Bearing retainer seal - right side

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Fri May 13, 2022 1:46 pm

The seal is most likely to leak, since it gets wear.
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Dale Finch
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Re: Bearing retainer seal - right side

Postby Dale Finch » Fri May 13, 2022 3:50 pm

ScottyD'sdad wrote:The seal is most likely to leak, since it gets wear.
Ed

Agreed. I will say that IF you decide to remove the retainer, at least the right side is the easier of the 2 on a Cub. But be VERY careful, because there are very thin shims just under it that are easily damaged while trying to get the retainer out. That o-ring is rather tenacious!

Another thing to point out is that the 3 bolts holding it in place are not equal distance, so it, and the shims, only fit one way.

Chances are that the leak was caused by an overfilled transmission, since the fluid level is normally below the seal. It is only meant to seal in splashed oil, not seal against an oil level above its lips.
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Re: Bearing retainer seal - right side

Postby Glen » Fri May 13, 2022 7:40 pm

Hi,
I don't know if you checked the transmission oil level before taking the final drive off, the oil level plug is low on the left side of the trans. Fill it to there only.
The trans holds 3 1/2 Pints of gear oil.

The transmissions in Cubs commonly get water in them from rain, or condensation inside the housing over time.
Water raises the oil level.
The drain plug is at the bottom of the trans, visible from under the platform, if you want to change the trans oil.

If the oil level is or was right, and it leaks from the oil seal area, then the seal or the o ring could be the problem.
Someone on here lately replaced the seals and o rings, he found one o ring was broken, not sure if he said both were broken.
The retainer fits tightly in the hole it is in. You have to go around it prying, moving it slightly in different places.
I think maybe turn it first, so you can pry under the bolt hole areas.
Be careful of the shims, like Dale said above.
The shims have to be put in again like they were.
It's your choice if you want to replace the o ring or not.

If you want to check if the o ring is leaking, before taking the retainer out, you could clean the area in the pic well, under the retainer too, and fill the trans with oil, to slightly below the hole in the seal, and let it sit for a day, and see if oil leaks out the o ring.

My opinion is the oil seal has been replaced before. A 1948 Cub originally had a different style of oil seal than in your picture.
I see something else not 1948 in the pic, the bolts holding the retainer on have newer markings than IH used in 1948.
You could look at the casting code on the trans, and other parts of the Cub, and see if they are 1948.

There are casting date codes on the larger castings on Cubs. They tell the date when the parts were made. They use a letter for the year.
Below is info from TM Tractor showing what the codes are.

http://www.tmtractor.com/id/id_004.htm

The info below shows where the codes are.
The code on the clutch housing is usually partly behind the clutch pedal.
The code on the last part on the page, the steering gear housing, usually can't be seen with the tractor assembled.

http://www.tmtractor.com/id/castdate_loc.htm

Below are pics from TM Tractor of a retainer shim.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gdi/shim_001.htm

Below is a pic of a retainer, showing the thickness of it. :)
Attachments
Cub trans 5.jpg

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CaperKen
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Re: Bearing retainer seal - right side

Postby CaperKen » Sat May 14, 2022 7:38 am

Dale, Glen and Scotty, thanks for that excellent advice.

You're correct, Glen, about the year. I checked the engine casting and 2.24.T puts my tractor as a 1950 and contradicts the removable metal serial number tag. From TM, it appears that the T could signify the tractor as a 1972 or a 1950. Yes, those markings on the bolt heads alerted me to a more recent replacement. Plus, the brakes are the toggle type rather than the rod type.

I had cleaned the oil off of the retainer yesterday and replaced the transmission oil with the correct amount and have not had any additional leaking. I'll take that to mean that the O-ring may be fine and I'll replace the seal.

The worst part of this job is getting the brake bands to fit. Bands that I had ordered previously were too tight and would not fit around the brake drum even when it was off the final drive. I ordered another set from TM Tractor and those fit on the left side and hope will do the job on the right side as well. They seem to be of higher quality than those I had ordered from a different supplier earlier.

When reassembling the right side, I've seen guys attached the axle tube to the transmission first than mount the final drive and others attach the final drive to the axle tube first and then attach to the transmission. Which way is preferred?

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Bill V in Md
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Re: Bearing retainer seal - right side

Postby Bill V in Md » Sat May 14, 2022 8:29 am

CaperKen wrote:When reassemblingThe the right side, I've seen guys attached the axle tube to the transmission first than mount the final drive and others attach the final drive to the axle tube first and then attach to the transmission. Which way is preferred?

For me it was easier to install the axle tube to the final drive and then attach the assembly to the transmission because it required less space. The other way has the long differential shaft outside the axle tube, which has to be maneuvered outside that tube before inserting into place. As long as you have adequate space in your shop, there is probably not much difference either way. The connecting flanges on the final drive and transmission have alignment pins to make it easier to align the bolt holes and engage the differential shaft.
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Re: Bearing retainer seal - right side

Postby Bob McCarty » Sat May 14, 2022 10:20 am

It's probably easier to line up the axle with the hole if the extension is already on and maybe less chance of damaging the seal, but I've seen it done both ways.
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CaperKen
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Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub (sn 26136), named Rosalie
Location: Cape Breton, Canada

Re: Bearing retainer seal - right side

Postby CaperKen » Sat May 14, 2022 11:07 am

Thanks. A good idea for aligning the castings for reassembly is to use two long (6 to 10 inch) bolts with the heads sawed off in the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock holes. Just slide the castings onto those two bolts and it's much easier than using the short dowls. (I got that from "Surviving Maine on a 20 acre farm". That guy did 4 very good YouTube videos for final drive and brake repairs.)

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Glen
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Re: Bearing retainer seal - right side

Postby Glen » Sat May 14, 2022 7:35 pm

CaperKen wrote: Plus, the brakes are the toggle type rather than the rod type.

Hi,
IH began using the newer style of brakes during 1953.

I would check more of the casting codes, and see what year the parts are. I posted the page from TM Tractor above showing where the codes are. :)


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