Front pulley crankshaft

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MattS
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Front pulley crankshaft

Postby MattS » Sat Apr 02, 2022 3:16 pm

Hi,

I saw several topics about installing the front pulley on the crankshaft. I have to change the seal from this pulley.

As I can see on the other topics, we need to use a bolt to install the pulley on the crankshaft. So my question is what is the size from the hole (from the crankshaft) and what is the size from the bolt I need to do this operation :?:

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Dale Finch
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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Dale Finch » Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:30 pm

Have you already pulled the front pulley?

Here is a post about INSTALLING the pulley:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=106362
You may already be aware, but the manual states NOT to tighten down the front engine cover bolts UNTIL the pulley is installed. This allows the cover to "float" and center on the pulley and its seal.

This gives the description of the removal, with the bolt size. Unfortunately, the photos are lost. Perhaps someone has some. The installation uses all-thread of the same size.
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=34545

Also, this may be of interest when trying to figure out if the pulley is all the way in:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=104463
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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby MattS » Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:55 am

Thanks for your answer.

Actually I didn't remove the pulley and I didn't make the seal change. I'm looking for some informations before I do this operation :!:

What do you mean with "front engine cover" :?:


Thanks for the links. So the bolt we need to use to remove the pulley is a 1/2 -13 x 6in Grade 8 bolt but what does the grade 8 mean :?: (we have not the same designation in France :? )


Last question : to install the pulley, I think it's better to use a threated rod 1/2-13 ? I think the bolt will be to short.

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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby john2189 » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:45 am

Grade 8 is the hardness or strength of the bolt. I think yours would be 10.9

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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Bob McCarty » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:11 am

Front engine cover (crankcase cover): http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gen ... ov_001.htm
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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Dale Finch » Sun Apr 03, 2022 9:13 am

MattS wrote:....What do you mean with "front engine cover" :?:

Last question : to install the pulley, I think it's better to use a threated rod 1/2-13 ? I think the bolt will be to short.

Unfortunately, in order to access the seal for the front pulley, you must remove the front engine cover, which is a bit complex, since it requires removal of everything up front: governor, air cleaner, etc! The seal installs from the back side.

Suggestion...while you have that access, you might replace the governor spring and make sure any source of "slop" is fixed...from the governor to the carb.

And yes, bolt for removal, and threaded rod for installation.

This video might help for the pulley removal:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65112
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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby MattS » Sun Apr 03, 2022 11:02 am

Thanks for your answers. :thanx:

In that case I have to change the gasket N°21 from the screenshot.

Before we reassembly the front cover, do we need to line up the gears or make something special ?

Other question : is there a risk that the crankshaft is turning while the pulley is removed/installed ?
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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Bill V in Md » Sun Apr 03, 2022 1:43 pm

MattS wrote:Thanks for your answers. :thanx:

In that case I have to change the gasket N°21 from the screenshot.

Before we reassembly the front cover, do we need to line up the gears or make something special ?

Other question : is there a risk that the crankshaft is turning while the pulley is removed/installed ?

There is no risk associated with the crankshaft turning. The pulley is keyed to the crankshaft, so their orientation will not change during reassembly.
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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Glen » Sun Apr 03, 2022 6:45 pm

Hi,
Below is the Cub and LoBoy service manual, it has lots of info.
I would read the info in the engine section about the work you are doing to the engine, before beginning the work.
There is a contents beginning on page 1 of most sections, it makes it easier to use online.
This manual is for USA Cubs, but you can look and see what parts are the same as a French Cub.
I think mostly the electrical, the carburetor, and the seat are the differences.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

Before splitting a Cub, or removing the front end from it, to replace the front engine seal, you need to put wood wedges in at the front axle pivot.
A Cub is heavier on the left side, and they can tip over when splitting them, or removing heavy parts of them from the rear, without wedging the front axle pivot.
Or when you remove the front end, it will tip to the left without the wedges.
Below is a pic of the wedges, you will need to make them.
Hammer them in tight, and be sure they aren't hitting at the small end.
They should be tight on the top and bottom sides.
They don't have to be cut at so much of an angle.
Check them some during the work to be sure they don't come loose.

The governor is gear driven, and is driven by the timing gears at the front of the engine.
The distributor drive is made on the end of the governor gear.
When you remove the governor, you will probably lose the distributor timing.

I would turn the engine to number 1 cylinder TDC before removing the distributor or the governor.
Below is a page from a Cub owner's manual telling how to find number 1 cylinder TDC.
It is for a magneto, but finding number 1 TDC is the same.
Do what paragraph 2 says. Use only paragraph 2 on the page.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2032.jpg

When you remove the distributor cap, the rotor should be pointing at the number 1 spark plug wire post, with the engine at number 1 TDC.

You will probably need to remove the distributor to put the governor in again.

The governor gear has a timing mark that needs to be aligned with it's drive gear, the idler gear, when you put the governor in again, so the ignition unit can be timed right.

If you remove the distributor and oil runs out from the space between the distributor and the engine, the distributor drive oil seal is probably leaking. It is engine oil leaking.
The space between the distributor and the engine is supposed to be dry.

The distributor drive is made on the end of the governor gear.
TM Tractor has a new oil seal for it, below is their listing.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/gv/436fp.htm

If you replace it, check the seal surface on the governor gear, if it is rough, or has a groove worn in it where the oil seal was running, use fine sandpaper and smooth the surface. Clean off all sanding with a clean rag.

Be sure to install the new seal with the seal lip facing ahead.
Watch closely when installing it that the seal lip doesn't turn backwards, it won't seal if it turns backwards.
Put oil on the seal rubber, and the governor gear surface, before putting the new seal in.

Below are pics.
The 1st pic shows the distributor drive, and the distributor drive oil seal, installed in the engine.
The drive should be turned to this position when the engine is at number 1 TDC.
The 2nd pic shows the wedges. :)
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Cub gov gear.jpg
Cub wedges 2.jpg

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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Glen » Sun Apr 03, 2022 7:30 pm

Hi,
Here is more info.

The mark for timing the governor gear is on the rear facing side of the idler gear.
Don't use the timing marks on the front sides of the timing gears when putting in the governor.

Below is a pic from TM Tractor showing the mark. It is 1 mark, on the rear side of the gear.
It is on the right side in the pic.

The 2nd pic shows the timing mark on the governor gear, it is 1 mark, on the left side of the pic.
You have to use a light, and look forward, in through the hole in the block for the distributor drive.
You can mark the marks with chalk so they are easier to see.
It important that the marks be aligned, so the ignition can be timed right. :)
Attachments
Cub idler gear.jpg
Cub gov gear 2.jpg

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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Matt Kirsch » Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:40 am

"The seal installs from the backside?" That's news to me.

When I did the front seal on my 1953 Cub, I had to remove the BOLSTER, but not the front engine cover. Old seal popped right out the front. New seal tapped back in the front.

Also I did not need a bolt to install the front engine pulley. All I needed was an oven. Put the pulley in at 200F/90C for at least an hour. Have a wood block and hammer handy by the front of the tractor. Get your oven mitts. Take the hot pulley from the oven, run out to the shop, and slide it on to the crankshaft. If it doesn't go all the way on, take the wood block and use it to tap the pulley the rest of the way on.

The hard part was getting the pulley OFF.

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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Barnyard » Mon Apr 04, 2022 10:52 am

Hi Matts, welcome to the forum. I am not familiar with French Cubs so I will not try to answer. I can only assume the engine details are all the same as the American version.
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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby MattS » Mon Apr 04, 2022 12:24 pm

Thanks Glen for this complet answer :worthy:



Thanks Matt Kirsch. And you had no problem with oil leaking :?: I would say that's easier for me if I didn't have to remove the front cover :mrgreen:

Maybe are other members to share their experience from installing a new crank seal :?:



Thanks Barnyard. This Cub is from 1956 :D . The first Cub built in France, have a lot of american parts (the electrical parts were french and maybe some other parts)

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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Dale Finch » Mon Apr 04, 2022 3:42 pm

Matt Kirsch wrote:"The seal installs from the backside?" That's news to me.

When I did the front seal on my 1953 Cub, I had to remove the BOLSTER, but not the front engine cover. Old seal popped right out the front. New seal tapped back in the front.

Also, I did not need a bolt to install the front engine pulley. All I needed was an oven. Put the pulley in at 200F/90C for at least an hour. Have a wood block and hammer handy by the front of the tractor. Get your oven mitts. Take the hot pulley from the oven, run out to the shop, and slide it on to the crankshaft. If it doesn't go all the way on, take the wood block and use it to tap the pulley the rest of the way on.

The hard part was getting the pulley OFF.

I must apologize...I was confusing two tasks (front seal replacement on the cub AND the Super A, which DOES install from the backside)...you are correct, the front seal replacement on a cub does not require removal of the front engine cover. SORRY. :oops:

However, I would like to encourage the use of the threaded rod for reinstallation of the pully. Several times, at cubfests, I watched the front pulley installed by heating the pulley, then rushing to put it on, and ending up using an impact wrench for the final distance as the pulley cooled off. I'm sure this isn't really good for the crankshaft. Guess it really depends on how hot you get it, but then you risk damaging the new seal. Anyway, Raymond Durban's method is easy, does require some muscle, but if I can do it with my weenie arms, anyone can!

Something else that might be mentioned is the possible need for a "Wear Sleeve" or "Speedi Sleeve" in case there is an excessively deep groove worn on the pulley shaft. TM Tractors, a forum sponsor with link below, carries them, but they may also be available from auto parts stores.
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/en/472fp.htm

P.S. Thanks to Glen who also pointed this out to me! :hattip:
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Re: Front pulley crankshaft

Postby Glen » Mon Apr 04, 2022 5:25 pm

Hi,
I sort of expanded on what Dale said above, about removing the front engine cover, with info about timing the governor gear.
If you can pry the oil seal out of the cover without removing the cover, or the governor, that would save time and effort.
If the pulley surface where the seal runs is worn, it would be good to put on the wear sleeve, like was said above. It is shown in the Cub and LoBoy service manual too. :)


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