generator

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pett3227b
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generator

Postby pett3227b » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:36 pm

I have a 1948 farmall cub and I need to know if I have a 12 or 6 volt generator in order to determine if it is working. The tag on the generator says Delco-Remy and the serial number is 1101 355 51787. Also need to know the steps involved in motorizing the generator. thanks

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Bill V in Md
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Re: generator

Postby Bill V in Md » Sun Jan 03, 2021 4:56 pm

Based on the attached chart, looks like your generator is 6v, which would have been original equipment on a 1948 cub. I also believe Delco-Remy used black tags on 6v and red tags on 12v generators. You can use the other attached chart to troubleshoot the generator. To motorize the generator, the belt drive should be disconnected from the generator pulley. Attach a jumper wire from the F terminal of generator to the tractor ground, then attach a jumper wire from negative terminal of 6v battery and touch the end of that wire to the generator armature terminal.
Generators.jpg
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Generator & Regulator Troubleshooting Chart.jpg
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Re: generator

Postby tst » Sun Jan 03, 2021 6:10 pm

in 48 if it is still stock the regulator is mounted on the generator, if that is what you have that is a cut out relay not a regulator and controlled by the head light switch, here is a flow chart for that system
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07-Cutouttroubleshootingchartrev1_0.gif

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Re: generator

Postby Glen » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:10 am

Hi,
The 1101355 is the generator model number. It is on the left side of the generator plate.
The number on the right is the serial number, and is usually 4 digits.

1101355 is the model number that a 1948 Cub originally came with.
It is a 6 volt, positive ground generator, unless someone has changed it in the past, having it rewired.

It needs the 4 position charge and light switch to control the charge rate.
You have to choose the charge rate yourself, it was before voltage regulators were used on Cubs.
It has L, H, D, B positions. L is Low charge, H is high charge, D is dim lights, and B is bright lights.

The voltage regulators came out during 1950 on Cubs.

Below are pages from the 1949 Cub operator's manual showing how to use the 4 position switch, beginning at the lower left of the 1st page. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-34.jpg

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-35.jpg

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Re: generator

Postby pett3227b » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:02 pm

well the generator is originally a 6 volt. I don't yet know it it has been rewired internally to make it a 12 volt. The reasons for thinking it might be 12 volt is for 2 reasons. I have been running this tractor with a 12 volt battery for over 20 years. I have always assumed that the battery was not getting charged and have been charging it with an external charger. There is originally the cut out regulator mounted on the 6 volt generator. That black box has been moved over closer to the head and looks to have been rewired at some point. My end goal for this part of the tractor is to get it charging correctly and replace the coil. The tractor is currently running for about half an hour until it warms up and starts to loose power. Replacing the coil will probably fix that. I however need to know if I need to convert to 12 volt along the way with a new alternator.

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Re: generator

Postby Stanton » Sat Jan 09, 2021 2:26 pm

If I'm understanding you correctly from your description, it sounds like you've been using a 12V battery in a 6V system. Since the gen is 6V, it will only produce 7V-8V of power on a good day, which would account for it not being sufficient to charge the 12V battery.
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Re: generator

Postby staninlowerAL » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:41 pm

pett3227b wrote:well the generator is originally a 6 volt. I don't yet know it it has been rewired internally to make it a 12 volt. The reasons for thinking it might be 12 volt is for 2 reasons. I have been running this tractor with a 12 volt battery for over 20 years. I have always assumed that the battery was not getting charged and have been charging it with an external charger. There is originally the cut out regulator mounted on the 6 volt generator. That black box has been moved over closer to the head and looks to have been rewired at some point. My end goal for this part of the tractor is to get it charging correctly and replace the coil. The tractor is currently running for about half an hour until it warms up and starts to loose power. Replacing the coil will probably fix that. I however need to know if I need to convert to 12 volt along the way with a new alternator.

A 48 CUB would have been equipped with a magneto but yours may have been changed to a distributor type ignition. Determining which one you have will impact what you need to do to repair and/or upgrade. A picture would be helpful to understand your system.

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Re: generator

Postby staninlowerAL » Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:52 pm

staninlowerAL wrote:
pett3227b wrote:well the generator is originally a 6 volt. I don't yet know it it has been rewired internally to make it a 12 volt. The reasons for thinking it might be 12 volt is for 2 reasons. I have been running this tractor with a 12 volt battery for over 20 years. I have always assumed that the battery was not getting charged and have been charging it with an external charger. There is originally the cut out regulator mounted on the 6 volt generator. That black box has been moved over closer to the head and looks to have been rewired at some point. My end goal for this part of the tractor is to get it charging correctly and replace the coil. The tractor is currently running for about half an hour until it warms up and starts to loose power. Replacing the coil will probably fix that. I however need to know if I need to convert to 12 volt along the way with a new alternator.

A 48 CUB would have been equipped with a magneto but yours may have been changed to a distributor type ignition. Determining which one you have will impact what you need to do to repair and/or upgrade. A picture would be helpful to understand your system.

EDIT: A search of your previous posts indicate your CUB has a magneto so the above question needs to ask are you using a stock coil in the magneto or an external coil? If a stock magneto you can repair or upgrade your charging system as needed/desired since the ignition is running on the magneto. If you have a distributor or magneto with external coil then the picture is a little more complicated so determining exactly what you have is critical to the process. Good Luck. :hattip:

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Re: generator

Postby pett3227b » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:50 pm

IMG_0549-compressed.JPG
IMG_0549-compressed.JPG


These two pictures show the system that I have had going for a couple of decades. I am still wondering If I have a 6 volt or 12 volt system maybe these pics will help. Once I know which system I have I will motorize the generator and see if she still turns. I don't have an external coil from what I understand and am assuming that the pictures are of the original magneto. I could be wrong here. My only reasoning for this is because the external coils that I have seen are a black cylinder part that is added to the side. If there is another way my system could be 12 volt I would like to know about it.
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IMG_0550-compressed.JPG

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Re: generator

Postby Rick Spivey » Tue Jan 19, 2021 5:55 pm

Your magneto appears to be intact, and since there is no indication of an external coil, then it is likely functioning off the internal coil as originally designed. Those coils can be replaced, but the coil will cost from $50 to $65, which is why many choose to jury-rig an external coil. My opinion is either fix the magneto correctly, or convert to battery ignition with a Cub distributor; I don't like the external coil version as I think it gives you the worst of both worlds. rather than the best. I could discuss further if you are interested.
On your original question, Most of us believe you have been using a 12 volt battery with a 6 volt system. The starter doesn't really care, it will work fine on 12 volts. The magneto makes the spark independent of the battery system, so it doesn't care either. Your 6 volt generator would not be able to keep a 12 volt battery charged as explained, so you would need a battery tender, or go back to pure 6 volt.
So the real question is, what do you want to end up with?
Rick Spivey
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'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
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Re: generator

Postby Glen » Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:45 pm

Hi,
The magneto is there in your pics, that a 1948 Cub originally came with.
The ignition wire is plugged into the cover on top of the magneto, if the other end of it goes to the center post on the magneto cap, it is using the original style coil that the magneto came with.
I can't see in your pics where the other end of the wire goes.
The original style magneto coil is under the cover on top of the magneto.
I don't see any external coil in your pics.

Below is a page from the 1949 Cub operator's manual showing the electrical system with the hood off.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-33.jpg

The only things I see that are different in your pics are the generator pulley has been changed, I think, it's hard to see it in your pics, I'm not sure what is there.

Below are pics from TM Tractor of the pulley that the earlier Cubs came with.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gel ... y1_001.htm

Also someone added the voltage regulator on the engine, if it is connected, and was used in hot weather, the heat from it being on top of the engine isn't good for it.
If it is connected, someone changed the wiring some.
The original Relay on top of the generator is probably disconnected, but your pic doesn't show the Relay.
It's better for the system to use the right voltage battery that the system was designed for.
It's not good for a 6 volt charging system to be connected to 12 volts.
To use the Cub with the original 6 volt generator, and a 12 volt battery, it's better to disconnect the wire supplying power to the voltage regulator, or Relay, whichever is connected, and put electrical tape on the end of the wire, so it doesn't short, and remove the generator belt, which is some work to do.

The Cub operator's manual says the earlier Cub generator belt has to go on or off over the rear of the fan pulley, after removing the fan belt, and the fan assembly from the top of the mounting slot.

Then you would need to charge the 12 volt battery with a battery charger.

When the hood is off is a good time to oil the fan hub, if you haven't lately.
Below is a page from the 1949 Cub operator's manual showing how to oil the fan hub.
The screw should have a rubber seal in it, don't lose it when removing the screw, sometimes they stay on the screw, and sometimes they are stuck to the hub.
If it is stuck to the hub, just thread the screw through it.

I use a pump oil can to put oil in the fan hub. It uses light motor oil. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-28.jpg

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Re: generator

Postby tst » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:09 pm

looking at the generator pic it has a red tag, so it appears someone put a 12 volt generator on it ????, do not know about the # he gave, and yes the regulator is laying on the head

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Re: generator

Postby Glen » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:57 am

Hi,
Tim, part of the generator ID plate looks redish, and part of it on the left looks black. It might be just the picture making it look redish.
The model number he gave is an original Cub 6 volt gen for use with the Relay on top of it.
The model number is in the table above that Bill V in Md posted, it shows it is a 6 volt gen.

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Re: generator

Postby pett3227b » Thu Feb 11, 2021 7:25 am

IMG_0566.JPG


I still do not know for sure if I am running a 12 volt or a 6 volt system.The attached picture shows the relay that has been moved from the top of the original generator. The serial number verifies the generator is the 6 volt model that comes with the cub. There has been some work done to the relay. It is possible that the generator has been rewired to 12 volt and the coil in the magneto also converted to 12 volt system. I need to motorize the generator and find out if it still works. If this tractor has been converted to 12 volts it was done before 1995. That is when I got it. From the exterior it seems I have a 6 volt system. I am wondering is it very unlikely at this point that it has been converted to 12 volt and I should just hook up a 6 volt battery to the generator and see if I can motorize it or not. Or is it still within reason that it is 12 volt and I should find a way to know for sure that it is or isn't 12 volt. I want to get the battery charging and replace the coil that is my end goal.

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Re: generator

Postby Rick Spivey » Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:08 am

If your magneto is still configured as designed, it has nothing to do with the charging system, so it wouldn't be 6 volt or 12 volt. However, if someone removed or bypassed the internal coil with an external coil. then the external coil will need the charging system to excite it and cause a spark, so it would need to be matched properly to the input voltage. Leave the magneto out of this for now, and take your battery to a local auto shop to be tested. They will confirm the voltage and whether it is functioning properly or not. If there is a number on your battery, a google search will likely answer the question of voltage.
Rick Spivey
'52 Cub ("Great Personality") 148xxx
'48 Cub with FH ("Gunny Cub") 38xxx
'57 Lambretta (a slow work in progress)
'74 Triumph TR6 (Mama's toy)


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