Super C generator not charging

D

DonMountain

Well-known member
I have been doing some maintenance work on my Super C tractor with fast hitch it preparation for summer mowing. Replaced the leaking radiator and old battery. Now it starts and runs good but the generator does not charge when the engine is running. Is there a system for determining what part of the electrical system is not functioning properly? It has a new battery and starts and runs well with a battery ignition. I checked the fuse and it is good. So, I assume its either the voltage regulator or the generator itself? How might I test these?
 
here are 2 flow charts, one for a regulator system, the other for a cut out type
 

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Thanks for your help. Printed off a copy of the Generator/Regulator page and heading to the barn with it in hand.
Don
 
Ok, I got down to the box 3 that says "Jumper Generator "FLD" Terminal to ground". And I could hear the engine slow down slightly like there was a slight load on it, and I took a look at the ammeter and it was pegged on the "charge" side. So I guess my voltage regulator is burned out. Where might I find another one of these? Do they still make them? Are there good and bad ones?
Don
 
The last one I bought for a cub was from NAPA and it has worked fine. Assume since you got to box 3 you polarized the generator? That is often the case on the 3 tractors with generators I have
 
DonMountain":xavb9jgm said:
Ok, I got down to the box 3 that says "Jumper Generator "FLD" Terminal to ground". And I could hear the engine slow down slightly like there was a slight load on it, and I took a look at the ammeter and it was pegged on the "charge" side. So I guess my voltage regulator is burned out. Where might I find another one of these? Do they still make them? Are there good and bad ones?
Don
Click to expand...
Do a couple more things before you toss the regulator. Try a jumper from the "FLD" terminal of the regulator to the frame of the regulator. This confirms that you don't have a bad wire from the generator to the regulator. If that jumper makes it charge, the problem is definitely internal to the regulator. That is the point most people would go ahead and replace the regulator. HOWEVER, I suggest you take the cover off the regulator and take a try at cleaning the voltage regulator points (not the cut-out points). The voltage regulator points will be the pair that is closed. Carefully open them enough to slide a point file in and do a little filing to clean them up. Do not use sandpaper, emery cloth or any other abrasive. You will ruin your regulator by doing that, so you might as well save some time and just throw the regulator away now. After removing the file, open the points a bit and blow out any filings or rinse them with a no-residue cleaner. See if that fixes it. If that doesn't fix it or it doesn't stay fixed, it is time for a new regulator.

That is a lot of puttering with the old regulator that may not fix it. But I suggest doing it because of the answer to your other questions. New regulators are available from a lot of places. The problem is that a lot of them are junk, literal out of box failures. They are fairly expensive and the good ones are even more expensive. The good ones are made in the USA. I haven't gotten one from him, but others report getting a good one from Brillman.
 
I had one last year that had a bad ground.

Fixed the ground on the regulator and started charging like it was supposed to
 
I went to NAPA and paid $70 for a new regulator before seeing the other recommendations. Put the new regulator in, hooked the battery back up and polarized the generator according to the instructions in my operators manual. Started the tractor and I am getting a charge but the ammeter is constantly and rapidly bouncing between a very slight discharge and a 10 or 15 amp charge. The NAPA regulator was made in Turkey. So, now what do I do with it?
 
I would try Jim’s suggestion with the old regulator. It’s unlikely that NAPA will take back an electrical part that has been installed, but it’s worth trying.
 
I have the "new" Turkey made regulator all hooked up. I took off the cover and watched it operate when I started the tractor. The set of points on the top connected to the Field terminal of the generator is what is rapidly switching, connecting and then disconnecting. The "old" regulator is identical to this new one. And I am not sure what caused it to fail. I may have accidentally shorted it at one time when working on the system. Anyway, the point gaps between the two regulators are noticeably different. Should they be the same? Or are they set with a known amperage or voltage present in the electromagnet that operates them? Is there a technique for adjusting them? Like operating the engine at known speed and moving the gap until it closes? Or is there something else that is switching that coil on and off rapidly? Or does the other coil and points control the field coil?
 
the regulator gap can be adjusted, takes patience, just a fraction at a time, the import regs are junk, I only use the USA made, cost more, they may need to be adjusted also, closing the point should make it charge more,
 
I have long suspected that the major problem with the imported regulators is that the factory doesn't adjust them. I think the proper gaps etc. for the originals are in one or another of the manuals. Unfortunately, other differences in how the replacements are made may make the original adjustment specs meaningless.

I believe there is a Delco manual somewhere in the PDF manuals that explains how a voltage regulator works.
 
I found the manual for the original Delco-Remy voltage regulator, and looked through it to try to figure out an adjustment process to correct the voltage regulator I have. But there is no mention of the problem I am having with the "upper voltage regulator" coil rapidly switching to cause the charge/discharge appearing on the amp gauge. Is it a spring tension problem? Or a point gap problem on this coil? I think the "cutout-relay" coil stayed switched on or the points connected. And not being an electrical engineer I can't trace the fault to any thing or adjustment in particular looking at the wiring diagram. I know when a coil is energized that it attracts the switch arm to close the contacts. So, if I either narrow the switch gap or lighten the spring tension it seems like the switch would stay switched on? But what is wrong that causes it to oscillate?
 
closing the gap slightly should make it charge, use a meter to watch the charging rate, gauges go bad also and bounce, again you can confirm that watching a meter
 
When the engine is not running, the voltage regulator points will be closed. The cut-out points will be open. Confirm we are really looking at the voltage regulator points. When the engine is started and is run up to enough speed to charge the battery, the cut-out points will close. The voltage regulator points should remain closed until one or the other of these two things happen:
1) The current produced by the generator exceeds the limit.
2) The voltage produced by the generator exceeds the limit.
In the normal recharging of a moderately discharged battery, neither of these will happen and the generator will be producing (maybe) 15 amps and a voltage somewhat above whatever the battery was producing. As the battery charges, voltage from the generator will gradually increase until the battery is fully charged and event #2 happens.

When either of the two events happens, the coil under the voltage regulator points should produce enough pull on the points for them to open. When they open, the field circuit is open and the generator stops producing electricity. When that happens, the voltage and current from the generator goes away allowing the points to close. Then the generator starts charging again and the cycle repeats. This cycle should happen so rapidly that you don't see the cycling on the ammeter. The problem in your case seems to be that the cycling is so slow that you can easily see it. This suggests the voltage regulator coil/points assembly isn't sensitive enough to respond rapidly. Maybe the large gap you observed is part of the problem. If you could measure the voltage required to open the points, you may have a clue to the problem. It may be opening at too low a voltage, causing the cycling with a partially charged battery.

Note: I said points open cause the generator to stop. In practice, the regulator probably has a resistor in parallel with the points so the generator doesn't stop charging, but cuts back to a low charge rate.
 
Success! I finally bought an American made Regulator from The Brillman Company and it works perfectly right from the get-go. Now with a new radiator, starter points filed, and a new voltage regulator and battery, I thought I was ready to mow some grass. But, the tractor has been sitting awhile and the steering is real stiff. I greased the upper and lower steering rod bearings, but the universal joints don't have grease fittings on them. But, when cleaning out all the crud from the front end when changing out the radiator I may have done something to the front steering gear. So now I guess I need to again remove the radiator cover from the front end and see if I can drain and refill the steering gear housing? Anybody have any recommendations on doing this?
 
tst":2xti05re said:
here are 2 flow charts, one for a regulator system, the other for a cut out type
Click to expand...
Thank you, we are also having generator problems and this will help us narrow it down.
Hodge
 
Over the years I have purchased two of these regulators from foreign sources (one from Orscheln and one from NAPA) and neither of them worked properly and probably needed to be adjusted from the start. And I wanted a regulator adjusted to factory specs from the factory like they should have been. And the American made one I purchased from Brillman appears to be built and adjusted properly and works well. Another thing, before mounting or dismounting the regulator I always disconnect the power wire leading to the charging/light system off of the terminal on the starter, as that was the easiest way to disconnect the battery from the generator/regulator system. And testing to see if the generator is at fault you can just ground the F or field terminal with a wire with clips on the ends from the F terminal on the generator to the ground wire from the battery, wherever you have it grounded to the frame. And this should peg the amp gauge on the charging side if the generator is good. After putting in a new regulator, I always polarize the generator by clipping a wire on the starter terminal and touching the A terminal on the generator to avoid messing with any of the close spaced terminals on the new regulator and avoiding shorting them.
 
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