Step-by-Step Guide to a Rebuild??

[RWVNRAL]

It's been a year-long project. And, I've come a very long ways. To keep it simple, I've spent close to $1,000 on the old girl....so, from that, you may surmise that just about everything that needing replacing has been replaced. I could provide a long list, but I think that I'd be wasting your time. You guys are up-to-speed on the machine.

What was NOT done was a bottom job. The closest I got to a valve or a piston was in replacing the head gasket.

The girl smokes. She smokes like a Chinese factory, in fact. And there's no sense in avoiding the obvious. I don't even think the rings still exist. I can put a fresh set of plugs in, and after about 3 to 4 hours of running, they look as is they've been to hell and back.

I want to put new rings in this machine (possibly new pistons, if necessary--what about valves???). But, I'm not interested in spending a bunch more money. I'd prefer to buy the piston/rings package and make my way about it. I have a dependable machine shop for all the "shoppy-talky" stuff. But, what I am lacking is a concise, step-by-step about how to split this beast in half and begin the arduous task of gutting her. I've looked all over the place for this sort of guide...and perhaps I've overlooked it (if so, please clue me in). I'm not at all interested in having someone else rebuild the engine (it's a money thing! Gas is breaking me up!).

:help:

 

[Anonymous]

The best way is to have someone handy, nearby that has gone thru the process themselves, that is willing to give you a hand and advice.

You have a couple of us right close by. Dale F is close and someone else is too (slips my mind).

And we are always here for help and advice.

 

[Rudi]

RWVRNAL:

But, what I am lacking is a concise, step-by-step about how to split this beast in half and begin the arduous task of gutting her. I've looked all over the place for this sort of guide...and perhaps I've overlooked it (if so, please clue me in). I'm not at all interested in having someone else rebuild the engine (it's a money thing! Gas is breaking me up!).

You can find out how to do this in the Blue Ribbon Service Manuals on the server such as the GSS-1008 - Engine the Removal Process begins on Page 3.

The BRSM's are the IH Service Technician's Bible shall we say for servicing IH equipment.

You can also find this information in the newer combined GSS-1411 Service Manual for Cubs and Lo-boy Tractors - in Section 4 - Splitting And Recoupling The Tractor.

As Dale mentioned, it is always useful to have someone experienced on hand, but lacking that then by following the instructions laid down by IH for Servicing Cubs, is about the best way to learn how to split a Cub.

There is a very good article in the Cub Book of Knowledge - In The Shop - How To Safely Disassemble A Culti-Vision Tractor. This article is about splitting a Super A, however the basic points are applicable to safely splitting a Cub.

 

[Super A]

I am not a mechanic but I have been where you are. If I were you, I would get some plastigauge and measure the bearing clearances to see if they are in spec. Then check the compression. I expect you at least need to have the valves ground, and that is a machine shop job usually. One of the shortcomings of the Cub (and I love mine, don't get me wrong) is it has no sleeves, the bore is directly in the block, so if you do need an overhaul you have to have the block bored instead of just buying new sleeves and pistons.

Your worst case scenario I thing would be to have the crank ground, valves ground and block bored. You could buy the parts---pistons, bearings, valves, etc. etc. etc. through the machine shop, to make sure you get the right stuff and install it yourself.

I'd go talk to the machine shop, tell them what it is doing, and they can give you an idea of what it will all cost. Don't just stick new rings in it until you know the measurements of all four cylinder bores.

Al

 

[John *.?-!.* cub owner]

From your description I suspect you are looking at boring, and new pistons and rings. Valves may or may not need replaced, but will need ground, and crankshaft will probably need turned. My suggestion is to remove the engine , take the pan and all the covers off, and take it to a machine shop you trust. Once they measure the cylinders, crank, etc. you can make the decision on what to do.

 

[Eugene]

Read all of your previous posts. I gather that the tractor has been sitting for a considerable length of time. Also there is no mention of compression tests or a vacuum test/check.

First thing, conduct the compression tests.

Try the SeaFoam treatment in the engine oil and fuel. Work the tractor hard for a considerable length of time to see if the rings free up. If the rings are worn out the SeaFoam treatment won't work - but you are not out a lot of money.

Engine measurement and work takes tools that most folks do not have. Agree with the guys suggesting pulling the engine and having a machine shop conduct the initial work and measurements. They will also provide an estimate for the required machine work, parts and labor.

 

[BigBill]

I've had other engines in the past(other than cub) mic ok and the cylinders were within spec and i just needed rings and bearings and a valve job. There was no ridge at the top of the cylinders so a new oil pump and I got a rebuilt engine at a decent cost. I purchased a ball hone to remove the glaze on the cylinders.

My point is if you disassemble the whole engine and its within spec and mics ok it could be done right at an affordable cost. If your going to do it, do it right so you won't have to do it again. Bill

 

[ricky racer]

In my opinion, if you are going to rebuild the engine, you need to commit to it and do it correctly. Many will just replace the rings even though the cylinder bores are out of spec. or cut corners to do it on the cheap. Most will just be throwing money away or will just have a short term fix. I rebuilt mine 3 or 4 years ago. I did all the work except for the machine work on the engine block. In my experience, a complete rebuild will run you between $1000 and $1300 for just the parts and machine work. For $1300 to $1600 you can pick up a nice Cub and you might get one with a tight motor that doesn't smoke and runs good.

However, with a rebuilt motor, you will have a new motor. If the rest of the tractor needs work, well it doesn't make much sense to rebuild the motor only to have other problems that will take away the pleasure of having a "new" Cub, you will need to address the other tractor those issues too. I bought my non-running '53 fence row special, for $600. It came with about $300 in implements. I rebuilt the engine and went through everything on the tractor and made sure everything was in good shape or repaired before reassembly. I've got about $2500 in mine but it is virtually a new Cub that should last me the rest of my life with few problems. In the years since my rebuild, I have not had a single problem with it and it is a joy to use.

Again, if you are going to do a rebuild, my opinion is either commit to doing it right or shop for another tractor in better shape. You'll save yourself a lot of work, time and money.

 

[RWVNRAL]

Thanks to everyone who has responded to my post. My biggest concern has less to do with money (although that is a definite factor) and more to do with knowing what to do if I run into an "oops"...not being able to draw from experience is a huge hindrance at that point. The tractor was my grandfather's first non-biological farm accessory. So, there are significant sentimental issues at play here. Having spent nearly $1,000 on everything BUT a bottom job (or engine overhaul), I just wonder if it makes sense to go much further at this point if I cannot do the labor myself (except for machining, of course). Perhaps I should just live with lots of oil burn and cleaning sparks every 5 to 10 hours for a while. Another drawback to this cub is that most of the implements have been stolen, lost, or gone missing over the years.....so, about the most I can do is drag a trailer and drop a plow into the ground.

Still...if ever anyone of you guys come across a step-by-step guide that has been written for the dumb-arse (as opposed to the techno-jargon of a period mechanic), I sure hope you'll keep me in mind. What would be really cool would be a series of videos showing the break down and rebuild process from start to finish. Anyone got a heckuva lot a time on his hands??

 

[ricky racer]

Just what did you do for $1000? A head gasket doesn't cost $1000. When you say a bottom job it makes me think you are only talking about rod and main bearings. The cylinder bore condition is the main thing to check out to determine the condition of the engine. With the head off you can easily measure the bores. You may need to ask someone for help if you don't have access to measuring tools or don't have the experience to measure the bores. Once the bores reach .005" beyond the nominal bore diameter, it's time for a rebuild. As you tear-down the engine there will be several things you will need to inspect including measuring the bearing journals on the crank shaft. The machine shop that will be doing the machining will measure the crank journals to determine if they need ground or not.

Below is a link to a video that you might be interested in. Remember, the guys here will be with you as you go and can answer all your questions when the arrive.

http://steinertractor.com/VID19D-cub--c ... -video-dvd

 

[Rudi]

Well ... if you get this, make sure you consult all the information that has been provided above. I bought this one already a couple years ago, more for learning I guess. Farmall Cub, International Lo-Boy Tractor Rebuild DVD

I have no idea how good it is, but it has been around for a while.,

 

[Eugene]

Another drawback to this cub is that most of the implements have been stolen, lost, or gone missing over the years.....so, about the most I can do is drag a trailer and drop a plow into the ground.

What would be really cool would be a series of videos showing the break down and rebuild process from start to finish.

Depending on what you want your Cub to accomplish - look at horse drawn equipment and equipment for garden tractors. Most are easily convertable to a Cub.

Videos: I have watched a couple of videos on rebuilding engines. Frequently a lot of information is left out or poorly explained. The steps used are not necessarily the order in which a machine shop or expereinced mechanic would use. Depending on engine condition - step 3 or 4 may have to take place before step 1.

 

[Jim Becker]

I can't speak to the value of the rebuilding DVDs as I have't seen most of them. I have to say that I have yet to hear any rave reviews on any of them. There is one excellent book on antique tractor restoration. It is Spencer Yost's Antique Tractor Bible. It is not Cub specific. But it in combination with a Cub shop manual will get you through most things.

 

[Rudi]

I just looked at Ricky's link and it is the same video...

Eugene has a point with the DVD's. The best resource is the Service Manuals as well as consulting here on the forum as you need to. There are many and I do mean many of our members who are literally experts at this stuff and can walk you through just about any repair especially if you already have somewhat of a skillset. As far as the implements, if you look at the classifieds here on the site you will see that implements are available. Since most of your GrandFather's implements are now gone, I guess you are where the rest of us are... on the lookout for good implements that we can buy. If you know what implements your GrandFather had your search can be refined to find those implements hopefully close to you.

So to kinda address your concerns ....

It's been a year-long project. And, I've come a very long ways. To keep it simple, I've spent close to $1,000 on the old girl....so, from that, you may surmise that just about everything that needing replacing has been replaced. I could provide a long list, but I think that I'd be wasting your time. You guys are up-to-speed on the machine.

What was NOT done was a bottom job. The closest I got to a valve or a piston was in replacing the head gasket.

The girl smokes. She smokes like a Chinese factory, in fact. And there's no sense in avoiding the obvious. I don't even think the rings still exist. I can put a fresh set of plugs in, and after about 3 to 4 hours of running, they look as is they've been to hell and back.

I want to put new rings in this machine (possibly new pistons, if necessary--what about valves???). But, I'm not interested in spending a bunch more money. I'd prefer to buy the piston/rings package and make my way about it. I have a dependable machine shop for all the "shoppy-talky" stuff. But, what I am lacking is a concise, step-by-step about how to split this beast in half and begin the arduous task of gutting her. I've looked all over the place for this sort of guide...and perhaps I've overlooked it (if so, please clue me in). I'm not at all interested in having someone else rebuild the engine (it's a money thing! Gas is breaking me up!).

:help:

Well, actually maybe you should let us know what you have done otherwise we are all just poking at a pile of smoke.... and yes we know our Cubs but we have no clue what your Cub is like.

It smokes .. so did you put some SeaFoam in the gastank and the crankcase? Or have you tried other similar additives like Marvel Mystery Oil before you decide to spend a ton of cash on parts you may/may not need? Have you checked the valves? What condition are they in? Have you checked the valve lash and adjusted if needed?

I have already indicated where this information can be found. Follow the links in my previous post and you will find the manuals. These are what IH Service Techs use to tear down, repair and re-assemble a Cub.

It is not an arduous task to split a Cub. Although this is for a Super A it is identical in process - How To Safely Disassemble A Culti-Vision Tractor. Use this How To along with the Blue Ribbon Service Manuals and you should be able to do this real well.

Do the simple stuff first before you decide to take it apart.

 

[Dusti Snider]

Lots of good tips and suggestions already mentioned here so I won't bother to muddy the water with my own. I will suggest this, there is a very active enthusiastic club in your area, International Harvester Collectors Club, East Carolina Chapter 37. Here's a link to the clubs website where you can find all the pertinent info on joining if you so desire. A great bunch of folks, some I consider friends and always eager to help. It would be time and money well spent to join and attend activites when and where you can. They've been kind enough to take me even though I live a few hours away. Wish I lived closer so I could participate even more.

http://www.ihcc37.com/index.html

I'll be coming down with my Dad in the morning to Carthage, NC and spending the day with other Chapter 37 members at the "100 Years of Progress Train & Tractor Show"

 

[bythepond88]

a step-by-step guide that has been written for the dumb-arse (as opposed to the techno-jargon of a period mechanic)

IMHO, the blue ribbon service manual, while not targeted to the "dumb-arse," is certainly not "techno-jargon." If you are willing to turn a wrench and read a book, tearing down and reassembling the engine should be well within your abilities. I rebuilt the engine in my MG from the block up as a teen "with a wrench in one hand and a book in the other." I had no prior experience, and had not taken any shop classes (I was a geek). If I could do it, you can do it. Furthermore, I did not have anything like this forum to back me up. If you are not under time constraints, I strongly recommend doing as much of it yourself as possible. Not only will you gain experience, but what could be better than adding your own "sweat equity" to this family heirloom? When you reach any point where you are not sure what to do, check in here and the gurus will point the way. That way you won't risk bollixing things up out of ignorance.

 

[ricky racer]

I really doubt that the video is the way to go to instruct you on rebuilding your Cub, however, it may provide you some moral support and kind of give you a helping hand by making you feel more comfortable tackling this job. I have never seen the video. If you are going to do the rebuild yourself you will need a good service manual. I purchased mine from OEM and it is a very good manual, a copy of the original. Use the manual for guidance and the video for to make yourself more comfortable by seeing what they are doing then using the manual for proper instruction. If you have any mechanical aptitude, you will find that the Cub is really a simple machine. Again, you have a bunch of guys here that have been down the road a time or two or more that can answer any questions that you may have. You just need to roll up your sleeves and get to it. Good luck and keep us posted.

:big afro:

 

[RWVNRAL]

Thanks for the heads-up on Chapter 37. I've contacted Mr. Lilley and he has already responded.

 

[RWVNRAL]

Just what did you do for $1000?

Well, approximately $400 of the investment entailed reimbursing a family friend for the use of his garage and his trailer for shuttling the cub back and forth between our place and his, and a couple of trips to the welding shop (had a tough time getting the drawbar to stay connected to the rear axels).

Otherwise, the remaining costs included the following: new radiator, new head gasket as well as slight machining of the old head, all new wiring harness, all new rubber hoses, rebuilt carburetor, all new ignition (wires, plugs, points, cap, etc), rebuilt generator, new battery cable, new steering box seal and gasket, new sediment bowl and steel gas line, new ammeter (although this one needs replacing with OEM model), new muffler, new on/off switch, three full oil flushes, and the welding of the drawbar. That's all I can remember.

So, in sum, about $600 in parts, labor, or fluids, and another $400 for the use of a friend's garage and hauling expenses. And while that $400 may seem a lot for a friend to charge a friend....He actually stored the machine for several years and we insisted that he take the money for his inconvenience (his wife complained about it a lot hehe).

This should give everyone a fairly good glimpse into the restoration up to this point. No painting. Not really pressed about painting it. It's still got a good bit of its original color in tact. Recently had the fuel tank steamed out so the old sediment bowl could be fried off (another $65) and was informed that it was the cleanest fuel tank they'd ever seen on a tractor this old. Thanks for the assistance!

 

[ricky racer]

a step-by-step guide that has been written for the dumb-arse (as opposed to the techno-jargon of a period mechanic)

IMHO, the blue ribbon service manual, while not targeted to the "dumb-arse," is certainly not "techno-jargon." If you are willing to turn a wrench and read a book, tearing down and reassembling the engine should be well within your abilities. I rebuilt the engine in my MG from the block up as a teen "with a wrench in one hand and a book in the other." I had no prior experience, and had not taken any shop classes (I was a geek). If I could do it, you can do it. Furthermore, I did not have anything like this forum to back me up. If you are not under time constraints, I strongly recommend doing as much of it yourself as possible. Not only will you gain experience, but what could be better than adding your own "sweat equity" to this family heirloom? When you reach any point where you are not sure what to do, check in here and the gurus will point the way. That way you won't risk bollixing things up out of ignorance.

This is not a ricky racer quote.