I've been sweat soldering copper tubing in water service for years, using solid 50/50 solder, and while I'm aware that lead-free solder is required by code these days, because my work has been for myself, replumbing my old farmhouse, I've never made the transition. (Frankly I find it difficult to believe that the small "ring" of solder water see's as it passes inside a sweated joint can make that big of a difference in picking up lead contamination, but my opinion wasn't asked when they changed the regulations.) I've read that lead-free is more difficult to flow than the 50/50, and may require higher temperature and it's own flux. Can anyone relate their experience making the transition?
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Lead-free solder
- Thread starter Paul_NJ
- Start date
Buzzard Wing
501 Club
Gotta say that Pex stuff is pretty sweet to work with compared to copper.... but you need the tool.
I'm am and have been using lead free in my plumbing - no problems.
I worked for a small company. A customer's kitchen water, tested high in lead. The company went in and had to take out all the lines supplying water to the kitchen of a house. The problem was that water in the kitchen supply pipes stood for a considerable length of time between uses - picking up lead from the solder.
My thought. If you are going to do you own plumbing and the water is for consumption - use the lead free solder.
I worked for a small company. A customer's kitchen water, tested high in lead. The company went in and had to take out all the lines supplying water to the kitchen of a house. The problem was that water in the kitchen supply pipes stood for a considerable length of time between uses - picking up lead from the solder.
My thought. If you are going to do you own plumbing and the water is for consumption - use the lead free solder.
Jeff D. N.E. Wis.
Well-known member
I do my own soldering at home and the smaller stuff at work. Yes, the lead free solder takes more heat to flow but it isn't too bad. As for the flux, they sell flux for lead free but the 50/50 flux seems to work just as well. Have stuff soldered that way for years and no leaks.
I would go with the lead free to be on the safe side but personally I like the 50/50 stuff for the flowing factor.
Just my $.02.
Jeff
I would go with the lead free to be on the safe side but personally I like the 50/50 stuff for the flowing factor.
Just my $.02.
Jeff
John *.?-!.* cub owner
501 Club
I have not yet used it, since about the only pipe I solder anymore is overflow on radiator, etc. and I have enough real solder left to handle that for many years. Reason for the mandatory change was not so much the guys that knew how to sweat copper, but the ones who didn't and ended up with big globs of it in the pipes, etc. Once it has been there a while it builds up a layer of minerals over it and is not a problem anyway.
Paul_NJ said:(Frankly I find it difficult to believe that the small "ring" of solder water see's as it passes inside a sweated joint can make that big of a difference in picking up lead contamination, but my opinion wasn't asked when they changed the regulations.
If all the stuff they claim will kill us were true, humans would be extinct by now. I'm not saying that these regulations don't make some sense and save lives, but they carry it to extremes. My buddy's family was still using a lot of pewter ware in their old lead plumbed house into the 90's and nobody in the family had lead poisoning. My grandfathers fatal stroke might have been caused by his lifetime of smoking, but he was 96. We all know that smoking isn't good for you (I don't smoke) but now the safety nazi's are claiming 3rd hand smoke will kill you. C'mon now!!! The French have a saying for stuff like this, "pouce mais pouce egal". Roughly translated is, " If you're going to stick it to me, at least do it evenly".
When someone says, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you", beware, it's going to cost you.
Back to the topic, We just finished replumbing an entire large house with lead free with no problems and I'm a plumbing amateur.
I appreciate the replies. Beside the fact that I have half a dozen unused rolls of 50/50 on the shelf from my stained glass window days, I've been reluctant to try to transition to the lead-free solder because of the sweating difficulties I have heard. However, if/when I finally do have to allow a building inspector in, I probably should have the "correct" solder handy to be able to say . . . "oh yeah, this is what I used, of course! . . . ".
Sounds like the difficulties are exagerated. Thanks again!
Sounds like the difficulties are exagerated. Thanks again!
Dave (69 lo-boy)
Well-known member
I am no professional plumber but I have done my share.
I have had no trouble getting lead free solder to flow, but I changed my house over to PEX a couple of years ago and I love it.
You can bend PEX between joist or studs and don't have to use a 90 degree elbow.
You can repair a line with water in it.
It doesn't get pinhole leaks from acidic well water, a problem here.
I put in a "home run" system with a manifold, it has a valve for every branch so you can cut off only the water to the place you want and leave the rest of the house with water.
The tools are expensive but the savings on pipe more than pays you back on a whole house.
Dave
I have had no trouble getting lead free solder to flow, but I changed my house over to PEX a couple of years ago and I love it.
You can bend PEX between joist or studs and don't have to use a 90 degree elbow.
You can repair a line with water in it.
It doesn't get pinhole leaks from acidic well water, a problem here.
I put in a "home run" system with a manifold, it has a valve for every branch so you can cut off only the water to the place you want and leave the rest of the house with water.
The tools are expensive but the savings on pipe more than pays you back on a whole house.
Dave
beaconlight
501 Club
I have a B Tank so it has plenty of heat. The old Bernsamatic didn't get hot enough for a good job. When the joint isn't hot enough the cold solder joint may eventually leak.
They outlawed yellow brass threaded pipe years ago for the same reason lead leaching. They substituted antimony and tin for the lead and now you have red brass. Faucets are still made of yellow brass for its machining ability. In truth you are to flush out each faucet at least 1st use of the day, if the water is to be used for drinking or cooking.
My parents house has lead from the street to the curb line. Origionally 1928 it was galvanized from there to the house and throughout. After WWII the balance of the inside pipes were replaced with yellow brass. I was still in High school when we replaced the service from the lead to the basement with flare joint copper tubing. I remember digging the trench.
NYC has for a number of years used an additive to coat the inside of lead pipe and 50 50 joints to prevent lead leaching.
I prefer 50 50 or 60 40 for heating systems and general soldering. With the acetylene B tank lead free is my choice for plumbing. Especially cold water that one may drink. Yes I know the hot will leach more because of temp.
All that said we used to cast our own lead soldiers and play with the mercury my folks had in a flask, pour it out play with it and put it back.
None of the above hurt me, hurt me hert me hert my hurt me.
They outlawed yellow brass threaded pipe years ago for the same reason lead leaching. They substituted antimony and tin for the lead and now you have red brass. Faucets are still made of yellow brass for its machining ability. In truth you are to flush out each faucet at least 1st use of the day, if the water is to be used for drinking or cooking.
My parents house has lead from the street to the curb line. Origionally 1928 it was galvanized from there to the house and throughout. After WWII the balance of the inside pipes were replaced with yellow brass. I was still in High school when we replaced the service from the lead to the basement with flare joint copper tubing. I remember digging the trench.
NYC has for a number of years used an additive to coat the inside of lead pipe and 50 50 joints to prevent lead leaching.
I prefer 50 50 or 60 40 for heating systems and general soldering. With the acetylene B tank lead free is my choice for plumbing. Especially cold water that one may drink. Yes I know the hot will leach more because of temp.
All that said we used to cast our own lead soldiers and play with the mercury my folks had in a flask, pour it out play with it and put it back.
None of the above hurt me, hurt me hert me hert my hurt me.
I have a roll of pure tin wire that I use for sweating copper pipe. It does take just a bit higher temperature but flows very well and I think makes a prettier joint than the old 50/50. It never tarnishes.
Don't know where you'd purchase it today. I've had it for 20 years, it came from a tin spray rig used to tin plate large restaurant kettles. It came in a 50 lb. roll about 1/8 dia. wire.
I've often wondered why they didn't sell it for plumbers to use.
Don't know where you'd purchase it today. I've had it for 20 years, it came from a tin spray rig used to tin plate large restaurant kettles. It came in a 50 lb. roll about 1/8 dia. wire.
I've often wondered why they didn't sell it for plumbers to use.
beaconlight
501 Club
Why tin cans are not tin any more. Interactive compounds with the contents.
MadSci Network: Biochemistry
Query:
Re: At what level is the element tin toxic?
Date: Wed Dec 15 18:10:57 2004
Posted By: Steve Mack, Post-doc/Fellow, Molecular and Cell Biology
Area of science: Biochemistry
ID: 1102366318.Bc Message:
Tin is relatively non-toxic, as it is not readily absorbed when it is ingested. However, inhalation of molten tin vapors can result in "adverse pulmonary effects" according to the Center for Disease Control's Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). In general, it seems that compounds containing tin can be more toxic than metallic tin itself.
You can find more information about the toxicity and effects of tin by visiting the ATSDR's web site (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov), and reading their Toxicity Facts for Tin and Tin Compounds page, and then by downloading additional materials from their Toxological Profile of Tin and Tin Compounds.
Finally, if you want to find out about the specifics of the toxicity of tin containing compounds, you can do a google search for the keywords "tin" and "LD50". The LD50 is the dose of a compound that will kill 50% of the test animals in a toxicity study.
MadSci Network: Biochemistry
Query:
Re: At what level is the element tin toxic?
Date: Wed Dec 15 18:10:57 2004
Posted By: Steve Mack, Post-doc/Fellow, Molecular and Cell Biology
Area of science: Biochemistry
ID: 1102366318.Bc Message:
Tin is relatively non-toxic, as it is not readily absorbed when it is ingested. However, inhalation of molten tin vapors can result in "adverse pulmonary effects" according to the Center for Disease Control's Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR). In general, it seems that compounds containing tin can be more toxic than metallic tin itself.
You can find more information about the toxicity and effects of tin by visiting the ATSDR's web site (http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov), and reading their Toxicity Facts for Tin and Tin Compounds page, and then by downloading additional materials from their Toxological Profile of Tin and Tin Compounds.
Finally, if you want to find out about the specifics of the toxicity of tin containing compounds, you can do a google search for the keywords "tin" and "LD50". The LD50 is the dose of a compound that will kill 50% of the test animals in a toxicity study.