Help with timing and fuel

J

JLollis

Well-known member
I've mentioned before that I have someone else working on my cub, as I am engine illiterate. This other person does not use the internet, so I hope someone can help me based on my recollection of the problems he's having.

In timing the magneto, he has followed the instructions I printed from the H.L. Chauvin section. The magneto is positioned at #1 and is rotated as far CCW as possible. The engine is turned all the way back around to TDC. He then slowly rotates the mag CW. At this point the mag should trip, but it does not. What are possible causes?

Also, he says that when he cranks the engine, gas runs out of the carb. The air intake is disconnected at this point. The gas runs out of the large opening where the choke is located.

PLEASE HELP!! And please forgive my ignorance.
 
JLollis:

I don't remember seeing you post before soooooo !

First,
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to the greatest forum on the internet, and to the Cub Family. You will find that all the folks on this forum are kind, helpful and just full of Cub info and knowledge. They also happen to be the finest folks I have ever met :!: :D

I've mentioned before that I have someone else working on my cub, as I am engine illiterate.
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K, now a small but important point! Nobody was as engine illeterate as me... if it had been made of wood maybe, but it isn't co the C-60 was strange to me. I too had much trouble getting Ellie timed correctly, but it took me almost 30 or 40 tries to get it right.

I found that the easiest way is to PRINT OUT the relevant articles from Henry's Wondrous Words of Wisdom... and Wise they are. Use them in CONJUNCTION with the relevant pages from the GSS-1411 Service Manual. It is available on the server at the links below.... and will be helpful until you get your own copy.

Now, as to you major problems..

The engine is turned all the way back around to TDC. He then slowly rotates the mag CW. At this point the mag should trip, but it does not. What are possible causes?
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First make sure it is on TDC on the intake side of the process and not the exhaust. That is a big point.

Second, I have never been able to get Ellie's mag to trip when it says it is supposed to trip, but she is prefectly timed, and purrs like she should. I think she is off about 1 degree, but I got it as close as I could. Eventually I will get her to trip right on, but that will be in the rebuild stage... right now she has to earn her keep.

Also, he says that when he cranks the engine, gas runs out of the carb. The air intake is disconnected at this point. The gas runs out of the large opening where the choke is located.
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Have a feeling that you need a rebuild on the sediment bowl assembly and the carb. Look at Lurker Carl's Fixes at the link below.

Might I make a suggestion that you ask your buddy who is working on your Cub to come over to your place, have a coffee and peruse this info for himself with you as his guide. Sometimes, we just gotta read it ourselves to get it......

I am sure I probably goofed on a bit, forgot some or could have explained it better, but the real Pro's will pop in in a bit..

Welcome and don't worry. It will become clear shortly..

Oh, and if I can do this stuff.. you will be able to as well. Watch, listen, learn and next time you should be able to do much of it yourself... I know the guys here sure helped me through it...

Ok, so here is the spiel
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:

I would suggest that you read this thread: New Members and Visitors, Please READ Prior to Posting. There are many great links to informative pages such as the ATIS FAQ's 1 and ATIS FAQ's 2, The Best of H.L. Chauvin who has written very interesting articles on troubleshooting common problems with your Cub.


Also, you might want to visit the Cub Manual Server as there is tons of info on servicing, maintaining and re-building your Cub. In addition to this basic information, there are also a number of other useful tools available on the server. There is the Specialty Services page which has contact info for neat stuff like getting your seats recovered, buying quality Decals, Serial Number tags and a host of other neat items. Also there are the Parts Pages - both Used Parts Suppliers and New Parts Suppliers pages with links to quality dealers. I am always looking for YOUR favourite dealers for New and Used Parts to include here. These are intended to complement the businesses who support FarmallCub.com Website.

I would also recommend that you visit Binder Books and purchase the three most important manuals you can own for Maintenance, Repair and Rebuilding your Cub. These are the Owner's Manual, the GSS-1411 Service Manual and the TC-37F Parts Manual. Although they are available on the Cub Manual Server, it is better is you also have your own paper copy. Binder Books is the only Authorized IH Publication Reprint House and they have the best quality manuals available. Most other's are not of the same quality. Just a personal thought here, the I&T Shop Manuals, although helpful in some areas, really are not sufficient for the job. If you wish though, they are good additional reference works.

IF you really want to get the skinny on all things Cub, might I suggest you get a copy of Ken Updike's Farmall Cub and Cub Cadet's :?: . Along with Guy Fay's Letter Series Originality Guide, these are two must have's in anyone's collection.

In addition to the above information, don't forget to check out the various articles that are available to help with your Repair, Restore, Rebuild or just your Maintenance Projects. There are a number of sub pages such as Electrolysis or Rust Zapper's, Maintenance Tips, Jigs and Techniques, Implement and Part Sketches and of course the Paint, Decals & Other Finish Questions which has the Paint Chart and the Paint Committee Decisions links.

I truly hope that you enjoy your Cub and that you will be a frequent contributor to the forum. Again,
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to the Cub Family
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:D
 
JLollis,

Does the mag trip any time? If so, the governor is out of time now.

The dripping from the carburetor is caused by over choking.
 
There ya go :!: :D :D

George, I wish I had 1/100th of the knowledge you have forgot :!: I would be a darn sight more able to answer this stuff and get it right the first time.....

practice, practice, practice as my Daddy used to tell me, and some day I might actually get good at it :roll: :lol:
 
when I first attempted to replace the distributor on Missy with a mag, I ran inot the smae tripping problem, or maybe I should say non tripping. A "mechanic" that worked on it previously had reinstalled the governro without timing it, and then replace the original mag with a distributor rather than fixing the problem.

Regarding the fuel, does it run out all the time/ If so there is probably dirt under the float valve in the carb. If only whne cranking, you are probably overchoking it., which is easy to do on a cub.
 
More info.

The mag trips later. I believe the governor is timed. We used the white paint trick in Chauvin's tips. The fellow who's working on it said that he took it apart and redid it just to be sure.

As far as the fuel goes, I think he said that gas runs out when he hears the hiss of the exhause stroke with the #1 plug out. ...I think that's what he said.

I'm more concerned about the mag, as I have already purchased a carb kit that has not yet been installed. Am I wrong to not be concerned?

Thanks for all of your help.

Jim
 
Is it possible that the engine was torn down and on reassembly, the idler gear was installed incorrectly, making it necessary for the governor gear to be lined up off a tooth? We're pretty sure that we've lined up the gears according to the etched marks.
 
I just read Eugene's post on another thread about moving the rotor a couple of gears if you have a distributor ignition. I have a magneto, but I have an external coil. I suppose the coil on the mag went out. Anyway, since I am unable to get the mag to trip within the amount of rotation allowed for adjustment, should I remove the rotor and reinstall it a tooth or two off.

If this is way off base, you can laugh and poke at me, as long as you then give me the info I need to get my old tractor running.
 
Moving the rotor will not change where the mag trips. I would take the mag off and make sure the drive is lined up like the one in John's picture. It sounds to me that you're one tooth off.
8)
 
Short answer NO. The magneto is timed differently than the distributor. You still have the magneto.

Set the magneto points to .013. Your need to hear the click of the magneto. The click is an impulse coupling. The purpose of the click/impulse coupling is to retard the magneto's timing to TDC during engine start up. The snap needs to happen at TDC.

You will need to remove the magneto again. Check the position the the govenor timing gear. If the timing gear is correct and the magneto impulse clicks - I've read your description of the magneto installation - gut feeling is something is wrong. I use two complete engine revolutions before I do the final static timing (impulse click).

Eugene
 
I think what confuses everyone is that it takes 2 revolutions of the crankshaft to bring #1 back to TDC on compression.
 
Bigdog":1fl5s308 said:
I think what confuses everyone is that it takes 2 revolutions of the crankshaft to bring #1 back to TDC on compression.
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To make it more confusing, here's another way to say it... when talking about crankshaft position it is actually 720 degrees of rotation between firing of any given cylinder. #4 fires 360 after #1. 180 degrees after either #1 or #4, #3 or #2 will fire.

So... when we say the timing is off by 180 degrees we're really talking about mag. or dist. rotation, which turns half as fast as the crankshaft.

I think the confusion may arise from the advance which is stated in crankshaft degrees.
 
OK, now I'm confused about the click, specifically what the click is. I thought the click I was listening for was when the rotor jumped from approximately a 10 o'clock position to the 12 o'clock directly under the #1 position on the cap. Is there another smaller click that should occur before that happens?

This is a very humbling experience. I feel so dumb right now.
 
Don't feel dumb :!: Many of us have been in your shoes.
Magnetos do not produce a hot spark at low speeds (<400 rpm).
The click you're supposed to hear is the impulse coupling of the magneto. The impulse is used to generate a faster rotation of the rotor assembly to produce a hotter spark at low rpm. The impulse is disengaged at rpm's >400.
If the governor is timed correctly there is no reason the the mag impulse shouldn't trip as explained in prior posts. Have you checked your governor position as in John's photo:?
8)
 
Nope! You've got the right "click". It's the impulse tripping, and will make a strong spark even when cranked very slowly. There is no other "click".
 
That's good. I was afraid I was missing something. I believe we have a good spark on each of the plugs. He's checked and rechecked the governor timing, and he believes it's correct. We're thinking now that a PO may have installed the idler gear (I think that's what it's called) a tooth off. He was going to test this theory today by purposely putting the governor gear off by a tooth. I hope that works. I sure would like to hear that old tractor run. In my view, a cub that I can use is more useful than a yard ornament. If you've seen the pictures I put on the photo server, you would probably agree that my cub does not make a very good yard ornament.
 
I agree with the new plan. BTDT. The previous owner of my Case SC had been plowing with it for years, but I didn't like the way it was timed because it lacked power. He swore he had never had the mag or governor off.

That model Case is one of the few tractors that drive the mag off the governor like the Cub does. I had to jump the governor gear TWO teeth to get it to fire correctly at TDC at cranking speed.
 
Two schools of thought re: lawn ornaments.

One is the "Restoration University", or RU, and produces varying degrees of beautifully restored tractors from "it's-a-shame-to-get-it-dirty-but-it-sure-is-purty", to the "bona-fide trailer queens." Most of these would not be put on the lawn for fear of getting them rained on. I, as would most, would LOVE to have one, but I'd be guilt-ridden if I didn't mount the tractor with a purpose-bought pair of soft felt-soled slippers that never saw dirt.

The second school is "Refreshment College", or RC, where the tractors are refreshed and made both operational and as safe as is possible with these old chassis. They don't have the allure or the shine of the graduates from RU, but they put a smile on your face every time they open their pipes.

And every once in a while, when you're driving a back road you'll catch a glimpse, out behind a dilapidated barn, of a poor dropout from Rust High, or RH. These fellows sit flaccid-tiredly in the heightening weeds, reliving their glory days at the same time they are relieving themselves of their internal fluids. Never miss the opportunity to take one of these misled youth under your wing and help them "graduate!"
 
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