Found 12 volt generator on a 6 volt system....

[LuigiT]

Purchased my 1948 Farmall Cub last year. After working the serious problems, I finally got around to working an electrical issue where my ammeter was not reading so I replaced it and it is still not reading. Long story short, somebody in the past installed a 12 volt generator to this 6 volt system.

The tractor starts and runs with front lights working too. When the positive terminal is disconnected from the battery while running, the tractor stops. The tractor was modified in the past with a starter solenoid and key ignition switch.

Starter solenoid and voltage regulator are clearly marked as 6 volt components.

I'm pretty sure that the voltage regulator is not functioning properly and that is why my newly replaced ammeter is not reading. The voltage regulator is probably damaged from the 12 volt generator. I checked the battery voltage with the tractor running and there is an easy 12 volts charging the new 6 volt battery....

Looking through the Steiner catalog and website, I do not see a 6 volt generator listed for a Farmall Cub.

Please help. What advice do you have for me? My goal is to maintain the 6 volt electrical system but would consider 12 volt conversion if that is the better option. At this point, the easiest repair seems to be to replace the 12v generator with a 6v.....but I can't find one..

Thank you in advance! The expertise here is amazing. Very much appreciated.

 

[staninlowerAL]

Sorry to hear about your electrical mix-up, it's not too surprising to find some things that make one wonder "how did this happen" on these 70+ year old tractors!! First, I should say that it's not a good idea to disconnect the battery from a running engine, it plays havoc with the electrical system and may be part of the problem you're having with the VR. There's several different ways to address this situation depending on what your goals are, what's been replaced and the type ignition system that you are working with. First is, does your 48 cub have a functioning OEM magneto system (this is what would have been equipped from the factory). Other systems would be a 6v battery ignition which was a conversion option in early 1950's or some sort of field conversion to use an external coil (several different ways to do this). The fact that the engine does not run unless connected to a battery says that it's NOT a functional OEM magneto. Your post says you have a 12 generator, new 6v battery, VR (condition unknown) and probably a 6v starter. So post again on how your cub is equipped and what you want to do. Some pictures will help to sort things out. TKS Stan

 

[LuigiT]

Sorry to hear about your electrical mix-up, it's not too surprising to find some things that make one wonder "how did this happen" on these 70+ year old tractors!! First, I should say that it's not a good idea to disconnect the battery from a running engine, it plays havoc with the electrical system and may be part of the problem you're having with the VR. There's several different ways to address this situation depending on what your goals are, what's been replaced and the type ignition system that you are working with. First is, does your 48 cub have a functioning OEM magneto system (this is what would have been equipped from the factory). Other systems would be a 6v battery ignition which was a conversion option in early 1950's or some sort of field conversion to use an external coil (several different ways to do this). The fact that the engine does not run unless connected to a battery says that it's NOT a functional OEM magneto. Your post says you have a 12 generator, new 6v battery, VR (condition unknown) and probably a 6v starter. So post again on how your cub is equipped and what you want to do. Some pictures will help to sort things out. TKS Stan

Thank you Stan for the help. I have posted an edited update with pictures.

 

[staninlowerAL]

Pics show a battery ignition system upgrade from the OEM magneto. I suggest you place a Wanted post on the Classified forum for a good 6v generator. When you get that part exchanged, you can address the VR issue. That will keep it 6V per your objective. JMHO Stan

 

[LuigiT]

Pics show a battery ignition system upgrade from the OEM magneto. I suggest you place a Wanted post on the Classified forum for a good 6v generator. When you get that part exchanged, you can address the VR issue. That will keep it 6V per your objective. JMHO Stan

Thank you Sir.

 

[Glen]

I finally got around to working an electrical issue where my ammeter was not reading so I replaced it and it is still not reading.

I checked the battery voltage with the tractor running and there is an easy 12 volts charging the new 6 volt battery....

Hi,
If the ammeter isn't showing the power going to the battery with the engine running, it may be wired wrong. It should show when the generator is charging the battery.
A 1948 Cub came with the cutout, or Relay, IH called it, generator system. They use a 4 position charge and light switch on the dash.
It was before there were voltage regulators on Cubs, you had to choose the charge rate yourself.
The switch also works the lights.
The Relay is originally on top of the gen, and has 3 posts for wires.
The Cub may be newer than 1948, the voltage regulator is in the place where Cubs serial number 115403, which was made in mid 1950, and newer have it. The voltage regulator and Battery Ignition unit came out then on Cubs. The newer system uses a 3 position light switch.
The voltage regulator has 4 posts for wires. One post isn't being used in your picture. They are supposed to all be connected to wires.
You can take pictures of the gen from up under the left side of the hood, moving the Touch Control arms to the rear will give you more room to reach up under the hood.
The gen should have an ID plate, like the starter has in your picture.
The gen used from 1947 - mid 1950 was Delco model number 1101355, the number is on the left side of the plate. That gen was used with the Relay system.
The next gen, used with the voltage regulator system is 1100501.
The problem may be the voltage regulator points are stuck closed, or it is adjusted wrong, putting out more voltage than it should. That is a guess.
Check the serial number of the Cub, it may be newer than 1948.
Below are wiring pictures for Cubs.
The 1st picture is for serial number 115402 and below.
The 2nd picture is for 115403 and above, until Cubs were made 12 volts during 1964.

 

[staninlowerAL]

Pics show a battery ignition system upgrade from the OEM magneto. I suggest you place a Wanted post on the Classified forum for a good 6v generator. When you get that part exchanged, you can address the VR issue. That will keep it 6V per your objective. JMHO Stan

One further comment: If you decide to operate it as a 12v system you'll need to change the battery, coil and if you use a 12v self exciting/internal regulating alternator you can eliminate the VR. JMHO Stan

 

[LuigiT]

Hi,
If the ammeter isn't showing the power going to the battery with the engine running, it may be wired wrong. It should show when the generator is charging the battery.
A 1948 Cub came with the cutout, or Relay, IH called it, generator system. They use a 4 position charge and light switch on the dash.
It was before there were voltage regulators on Cubs, you had to choose the charge rate yourself.
The switch also works the lights.
The Relay is originally on top of the gen, and has 3 posts for wires.
The Cub may be newer than 1948, the voltage regulator is in the place where Cubs serial number 115403, which was made in mid 1950, and newer have it. The voltage regulator and Battery Ignition unit came out then on Cubs. The newer system uses a 3 position light switch.
The voltage regulator has 4 posts for wires. One post isn't being used in your picture. They are supposed to all be connected to wires.
You can take pictures of the gen from up under the left side of the hood, moving the Touch Control arms to the rear will give you more room to reach up under the hood.
The gen should have an ID plate, like the starter has in your picture.
The gen used from 1947 - mid 1950 was Delco model number 1101355, the number is on the left side of the plate. That gen was used with the Relay system.
The next gen, used with the voltage regulator system is 1100501.
The problem may be the voltage regulator points are stuck closed, or it is adjusted wrong, putting out more voltage than it should. That is a guess.
Check the serial number of the Cub, it may be newer than 1948.
Below are wiring pictures for Cubs.
The 1st picture is for serial number 115402 and below.
The 2nd picture is for 115403 and above, until Cubs were made 12 volts during 1964.

You know your stuff! Much appreciated. I added a couple pics to show the dash and I reached in to get a pic of the generator tag.

 

[Jim Becker]

Hard to read the number on the generator tag. With a little guessing, I come up with 1100401. If so, that is the generator used on Cubs from the change to 12 volts ('64) until the change to an alternator on the long stripe tractors ('75).

 

[LuigiT]

Hard to read the number on the generator tag. With a little guessing, I come up with 1100401. If so, that is the generator used on Cubs from the change to 12 volts ('64) until the change to an alternator on the long stripe tractors ('75).

Wow! That is very helpful. I read the tag as 1100401. Any advice on how to find a 6v generator?

 

[staninlowerAL]

If you google search for the part numbers Glen listed, ebay comes up with Delco 1101355, remanufactured, $300 and Delco 1100501, used, $275. You can expect to pay about $100 for a non working core to rebuild. Unless you just want to stay with the OEM 6v system, you can change the battery to 12v and install a mini denso clone alternator like I said above for about half that cost. BIRCH Tractor Store lists some also. If you already have a 12v battery deduct that amount from the cost. JMHO Stan

 

[Jim Becker]

There were several versions of the 6-volt generator used on Cubs from '47 to '64. Beast choice may depend on which versions of other parts are involved. Look at the generator belt drive pulley on your fan hub. Is it larger or smaller than the fan belt pully next to it?

In any case, an ad in the vine section of this site is probably a good starting point.

 

[tst]

do you want to get the original type 6 volt, you would need a cut out relay also as that what it came with, you could use the later 6 volt generator if you use a regulator

 

[LuigiT]

There were several versions of the 6-volt generator used on Cubs from '47 to '64. Beast choice may depend on which versions of other parts are involved. Look at the generator belt drive pulley on your fan hub. Is it larger or smaller than the fan belt pully next to it?

In any case, an ad in the vine section of this site is probably a good starting point.

Thank you very much. REALLY appreciate the help with this matter. I updated my post with a picture of the generator belt pulley installed on there now.

 

[LuigiT]

do you want to get the original type 6 volt, you would need a cut out relay also as that what it came with, you could use the later 6 volt generator if you use a regulator

Thank you. I'd like to stay with the voltage regulator set up since that is what is installed now. Will replace the voltage regulator when I receive a new 6volt generator.

 

[Jim Becker]

Thank you very much. REALLY appreciate the help with this matter. I updated my post with a picture of the generator belt pulley installed on there now.

Really needed to see just below what is shown in your belt picture. From it, I think I can see that the generator drive pulley is smaller than the fan belt driven pulley. Can almost see it in your regulator picture. Looks like the smaller one in that image too. That pulley, in combination with a voltage regulator was used on Cubs from '50 to '53. The generator was 1100501. (For a while after that, they used the same generator with the larger drive pulley.) There are other mix-and-match combinations that would work. But you are doing less experimentation if you get the matching generator.

Your regulator (which may actually be okay with a little light point filing) looks like an aftermarket unit. Are there any markings on it beyond the obvious in the picture?

 

[LuigiT]

Really needed to see just below what is shown in your belt picture. From it, I think I can see that the generator drive pulley is smaller than the fan belt driven pulley. Can almost see it in your regulator picture. Looks like the smaller one in that image too. That pulley, in combination with a voltage regulator was used on Cubs from '50 to '53. The generator was 1100501. (For a while after that, they used the same generator with the larger drive pulley.) There are other mix-and-match combinations that would work. But you are doing less experimentation if you get the matching generator.

Your regulator (which may actually be okay with a little light point filing) looks like an aftermarket unit. Are there any markings on it beyond the obvious in the picture?

Yes Sir, the generator drive pulley is thinner than the fan belt pulley. I am thinking that I will remove this pulley and install it on the new generator when received. Yes? I checked the voltage regulator on all sides with a mirror and there are no markings other than the generic marking on outside. Very much appreciate your help. Thank you Sir.

 

[tst]

LuigiT sent you a direct message, can help with a generator

 

[Glen]

Thanks for the pictures.
It would help if we knew the serial number of the Cub, so we know what it originally came with.
Jim B. is asking in post 12 above if the generator drive pulley on the Fan Hub is a bigger diameter, or a smaller diameter than the fan belt pulley, next to it. Not about the pulley on the gen. The pulley on the gen is the driven pulley.
IH changed the size of the gen drive pulley on the Fan Hub in the early 1950's.
The plate on the gen says 12 volts also.
The gen is probably the newer, vented. or open type, with the fan on the front, by the pulley.
The 1101355, and 1100501 gens are sealed, there is no fan at the front pulley. They have a removeable band that comes off, and can be fully disassembled if needed.

It looks like the original light switch is gone. They have a large knob that turns. They are shown in the Cub owner's or operator's manuals.
Someone has put the oil gauge in the dash, they originally are at the oil filter housing.
A 40 lb oil gauge works better for a Cub, the Cub service manual says they have about a 35 lb oil pressure system. A 100 lb gauge would probably never use over half the gauge readings.

Wow! That is very helpful. I read the tag as 1100401. Any advice on how to find a 6v generator?

J P Tractor Salvage may have a used or rebuilt generator. To get to their website, click on Forums near the top of the page, and they are near the bottom of that page.
Tell them the Delco model number of gen you need. The 1100501 gen is made to be used with the voltage regulator.
If we knew the serial number of the Cub, we could tell what it originally came with.

 

[Jim Becker]

I am thinking that I will remove this pulley and install it on the new generator when received. Yes?

Different versions of the generator used different pulleys. The pulley changed when they added the cooling fan (which you have). I doubt that pulley could be used on an earlier generator but haven't tried it. A rebuilt generator will probably come without a pulley. A used one is likely to have the correct pulley on it. I see that tst indicated he could help supply a generator. He knows about the pulleys and if you get a generator from him, he can make sure you get the right pulley.