Clutch Problems Again

D

DonMountain

Well-known member
A couple of years ago I started having progressively more problems with my clutch not completely releasing, so that the gears would grind when pushing down and holding the clutch down for awhile before trying to put it in gear. After adjusting everything including the clutch pedal and the clutch fingers to the recommended 1-1/4" a couple of times, I finally gave up and replaced the clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, and the supporting linkage. The clutch seemed to work ok for awhile, but wasn't quite right. Now its going down the same declining path as the old clutch, grinding the gears after holding the clutch down for awhile. I noticed that when I purchased the new clutch pressure plate that the fingers where adjusted way different than the recommended 1-1/4". It seems that they were way less, like maybe 7/8" or so, but I don't really remember clearly. So, since I had the same grinding gear problems with the old clutch that I had adjusted to the 1-1/4" setting, and the new clutch with the same adjustment, I am now starting to think this new clutch should be readjusted back to its factory setting of 7/8" to make this work. Its in a 1959 International Cub Lo-Boy. Anybody know what could be wrong with this clutch? :lost:
 
The pilot bearing was just on the large size of the allowable dimension as I recall. There was like an extra thousandth of an inch bigger than the shaft pilot allowable gap. And it was lubricated when put back together.
 
Hi,
They have said on here that the finger height on a new pressure plate needs setting to the 1 1/4" height, that they are usually too low the way they come, when the pressure plate is installed on the flywheel.

The throwout bearing and holder can only move a certain distance ahead before they hit the turning pressure plate. The bearing has to push the fingers far enough ahead to release the clutch before it hits the turning pressure plate.
If the fingers are too low, the bearing runs out of movement before the clutch releases.

They have said on here that the finger height of 7/8" when the pressure plate is assembled on the flywheel is too low. :)
 
So, what can be wrong with my clutch then? When I push the pedal down the shaft to the transmission stays turning and grinds the gears. This same thing occurred with my original clutch with the fingers adjusted to the 1-1/4" spacing, and now the new clutch is doing the exact same thing. With all new parts in the linkage so there is no looseness or play anywhere. And my pedal play is set to the 1" also. I have to do something as the tractor with new clutch is unusable.
 
The next question I might ask is, are there any "Factory" specifications for the setting of the clutch finger height published anywhere? Is it 7/8" or 1-1/4"? I have seen specifications listed for dimensions when the clutch pressure plate is assembled in the "Factory" support tool. And I would assume when a new clutch is put together and shipped out as being "adjusted" to the "Factory" specifications on the "Factory" assembly tool that it would be correct in adjustment when I bolted it on the flywheel? So, what did I do to it to make it not work correctly now? The only adjustments that can be made in the system is the clutch pedal clearance of 1", and the clutch finger height adjustments. So, which one of these did I adjust wrongly?
 
mountain4don":266n5gr9 said:
I would assume when a new clutch is put together and shipped out as being "adjusted" to the "Factory" specifications on the "Factory" assembly tool that it would be correct in adjustment when I bolted it on the flywheel?
Click to expand...
Not my experience. They all need to be checked and adjusted for finger height.

Might read the last 3 or 4 posts in the following topic.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=105970
 
mountain4don":159j5u3v said:
The next question I might ask is, are there any "Factory" specifications for the setting of the clutch finger height published anywhere? . . .
Click to expand...
Yes. It is 2-7/32 measured from the flywheel surface the pressure plate is bolted to. The problem is it isn't an easy measurement to take. I've never tried.
 
mountain4don":3ayk1zzv said:
So, what can be wrong with my clutch then? When I push the pedal down the shaft to the transmission stays turning and grinds the gears. This same thing occurred with my original clutch with the fingers adjusted to the 1-1/4" spacing, and now the new clutch is doing the exact same thing. With all new parts in the linkage so there is no looseness or play anywhere. And my pedal play is set to the 1" also. I have to do something as the tractor with new clutch is unusable.
Click to expand...

How ,long does it take for movement of your transmission to stop?

One of mine it is a substantial wait , if you're in a hurry.. More it seems when under load with the mower. I get a breather and look around while the deck pulley winds down. And that's fine . Beats slamming to a stop , and at start up.

The other Cub needs things to stop too before shifting. It's not instant , and it's not always a brief pause. I'm pleased with the clutch in it though.

My only interest is knowing when movement has stopped before shifting. Clutch still ain't right/perfect (if perfect exists) on the 48 , but much is worn holding it too. I suspect hanger bracket holes are egged out. Not bad enough to tear down again though. Yet.
 
Sounds to me like the transmission never stops turning.
So either something with the clutch is not releasing or the PTO pilot bushing is binding.
Get underneath and observe the clutch disengagement through the hand hole while someone actuated the clutch.

If everything is good there, then it must be the pilot bushing. Someone (Dale?) had some success lubricating the pilot bushing without splitting the tractor a couple years ago.
 
So, as a test, if I take the belt off the mounted mower deck and put the PTO in gear, and the transmission in neutral and have someone hold the clutch pedal down, how much resistance should be there in rotating the pulley on the PTO? This would be done with the engine off course. And could this give me an indication of whether the clutch itself is not disengaging? When I put the new clutch in I placed a dab of high temperature grease on the shaft that fits into the pilot bushing as suggested here. And I plan to dismount the mower deck and bring it up to the shop to see what I can see up though the clutch inspection cover as soon as we get all of these deer hanging in there out of the way.
 
I did have some success on one cub I no longer own, per a post made a while back using two "straws" taped together so lubricant could be sprayed into the pilot bushing. I don't remember the poster, but a search should find it, or maybe someone else (Glen?!) might locate it.

I must say that I currently own a cub that I was unsuccessful using that procedure, and at the Bash this year, actually split it twice before I was able to improve it enough to use without gritting my teeth! It still requires a count to 10 after pressing down the clutch peddle and shifting from neutral into any gear.
 
While you're looking through the clutch inspection hole, take a good look at the TOB yoke and linkage. Check for any breaks, bending or wear.
 
I replaced all of the throw out bearing yoke, pins and linkage when I recently replaced the clutch disk, pressure plate and throw out bearing. The clutch has never really worked correctly since I replaced all of this. Right from the beginning it was hard to shift unless I had the mower deck attached and the PTO turned on. But the PTO right from the beginning with the new clutch would grind the gears and was hard to put in gear after pushing in the clutch and waiting for things to spin down.
 
I have noticed and read in several discussions that the "standard" clutch finger adjustments were set at 1-1/4". And then after much discussion this number was reduced to 1-1/8" for some reason. What prompted some people to make this reduction? Were these clutches not operating properly? And what were the symptoms that caused this reduction by some people? Was it the same problem that I am having?
 
Dale Finch":1z643rnx said:
I must say that I currently own a cub that I was unsuccessful using that procedure, and at the Bash this year, actually split it twice before I was able to improve it enough to use without gritting my teeth! It still requires a count to 10 after pressing down the clutch peddle and shifting from neutral into any gear.
Click to expand...

I know if one of the transmission seals is put in backwards, the transmission shaft can shift forwards, creating insufficient pilot bushing engagement and the PTO clutch can’t engage fully. I wonder if there is any circumstance where there can be too much pilot bushing engagement? Ie, all the shaft and bushing diameters are within spec, but either the bushing rubs on the shoulder of the PTO shaft or the tip of the PTO shaft rubs on the transmission shaft? If the bushing is too thick, that might happen.
:big give up:
 
mountain4don":3698cnwz said:
I have noticed and read in several discussions that the "standard" clutch finger adjustments were set at 1-1/4". And then after much discussion this number was reduced to 1-1/8" for some reason. What prompted some people to make this reduction? Were these clutches not operating properly? And what were the symptoms that caused this reduction by some people? Was it the same problem that I am having?
Click to expand...
Not enough threads on the adjusting screw to obtain the 1 1/4" finger height and obtain full nut thread capture.

I have found out of the box pressure plates with finger height adjusting bolts thread locked to the fingers and none of the fingers were close to the same height.
 
When you get your Cub in gear does the clutch completely disconnect the engine from the transmission? (Does it still try and go forward with the pedal pushed down?) If its in gear and you push the clutch in how far do you have to lift your foot up before it starts grabbing?
 
mountain4don":2p8oknyu said:
So, as a test, if I take the belt off the mounted mower deck and put the PTO in gear, and the transmission in neutral and have someone hold the clutch pedal down, how much resistance should be there in rotating the pulley on the PTO? This would be done with the engine off course. And could this give me an indication of whether the clutch itself is not disengaging? When I put the new clutch in I placed a dab of high temperature grease on the shaft that fits into the pilot bushing as suggested here.
Click to expand...

Hi,
If you remove the mower belt, and turn the clutch shaft, using the PTO, while holding the clutch pedal down, there should be almost no resistance, it should turn freely.

Yes, you could tell if it is not releasing completely, if you feel a drag when turning the PTO shaft.

You said you didn't replace the pilot bushing, and it was worn to the upper wear size in the service manual, I don't see how it would have any problem with making the shaft drag.
The end of the shaft should be smooth, and the size it says in the service manual.
They need oil or grease put on them when putting it together, you did that you said.

The clutch should work normally, after you replaced all the parts that you did. :)

Something I remember people on here saying that can cause the dragging is the clutch shaft being bent, I don't know if you turned the shaft while the Cub was split to see if it is straight.
 
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