Clutch pedal with internal rod

R

rtruck200826@aol.com

Active member
I have sn 38400. Finally got her to start, using hand crank. No starter system. Lot of white smoke. Now trying to drive. Problem is the clutch won't stop drive so I can put her in gear. It is the internal adjusting rod like 47s. I read where around 32200 they went to external, somehow mine isn't. I can see the rod moving the clutch through the bottom hole. Looks as if the adjusting rod is adjusted to the limit. Can see threads on inside of adjusting yoke. Or is it supposed to be adjusted the other way? I assume the worse is that the clutch plates are worn to the limits. No telling what po did or how long it's been since last started. Can't figure out how to post pics. Have a Android phone. It is not smart. Also the pedal moves all the way to the stop.
 
Hi,
Serial number 38400 would have had the newer style clutch free play adjustment.
The Cub parts manual says IH changed the clutch free play adjustment to the newer style at serial number 32229.
I suppose someone changed something on your Cub.
You could look at the casting code on the clutch housing and see if it is a 1948 housing, or if it's been replaced.

The Cubs usually have date codes on the larger castings.
Below is info from TM Tractor, showing what the date codes are on Cubs.

http://www.tmtractor.com/id/id_004.htm

The info below shows where the date codes are.
The date code on the clutch housing, in the 1st pic, is usually partly behind the clutch pedal.
The date code on the steering gear housing, the last pic, is usually mostly hidden when the tractor is assembled.

http://www.tmtractor.com/id/castdate_loc.htm

There should be 1 3/16" free play in the clutch pedal on the 1st style of clutch pedal, at the top of the pedal travel, measured at the surface where you put your foot.
There should be return springs on all the pedals, under the platform, that pull the pedals up to the platform.

Does it take effort to push the clutch pedal down after the free play area ?

Below is a page from the 1947 Cub operator's manual, showing the clutch, and the rod inside the housing.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-40.jpg


The Cub operator's manual can help you learn about maintenance that the Cub needs.

Below is the 1949 Cub operator's manual. The experts on here recommend people read it. It has lots of info about operation, maintenance, and lubrication. There is a table of contents on page 1.
It shows how Cubs originally looked in it. The lube section begins on page 14.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

This manual shows the electrical system that a 1948 Cub originally had.
Cubs made before mid 1964 originally had 6 volt, positive ground electrical systems.

The recommendation in the manual to use 10W oil in the Touch Control was changed later to Case IH Hy-Tran fluid. It is sold at Case IH dealers.

I would check or change all the oils before using the Cub. Using it with low oil in a gear housing can damage the parts in the housing.
There are 3 separate gear housings, with 3 separate oil levels to check, in the rear area of a Cub, the transmission, and 2 final drives.

The transmissions in Cubs commonly get water in them, from rain, or condensation inside the housing over time. :)

I guess I sent you the operator's manual before. :)
 
Page 40 of 1949 Operator's Manual, Glen's link above, shows the location of the clutch pedal linkage and how to adjust the free play.

Edit. It 's possible the original bolster, serial number location, was changed to a bit later bolster.
 
Thank You Don for posting my pics. Casting date is upside down, reads 6-13-R. Wheels left and right are both 5-14-R, Transmission is 12-29-R, Engine is 11-24-R, couldn't read the steering box or rear axle. All indicate 1948 except the Touch Control is 5-20-X=1952. Just figured out how to post to the registry with my tractor and these numbers.
 
I understand the book info (I have a original 1947 manual, not reprint) about adjusting the yoke by turning it in to shorten the pedal play and I tried it but then it wouldn't engage the clutch at all. The clutch pedal has resistance from the spring and as pictured will move the grease fitting part about 3/8 inch or so. I am confused by the 3 adjusting screws on the clutch and where I measure to get those clearances. I believe my pad just might be completly wore down, not sure if I am looking at it right. Not so easy upside down looking into a hole, lol. I am seeing other posts like the one with the homemade wiper arm tool for measuring the 1-1/4. Think I am seeing the points to measure between. Have to get a ratchet screwdriver to work with tried a bit and 1/4 inch wrench, impossible.
 
I've not run into a Cub clutch that was worn down too much, but I'm sure someone has. More often, the pressure plate fingers are not adjusted correctly. That is extremely difficult to do through the handhold, I'd almost rather split the tractor and then review rear seal, throwout bearing, pressure plate and flywheel, etc.
 
It is pretty oily in there, the rear seal maybe leaking, so a split might be in order. That's what I wondered, how easy it was to wear out the clutch. Although it is a 72 year old tractor and this one appears to have been used a lot. It came with dozer blade and woods mower. Has the cultivator rear hook bar, has a plow lift handle on the right and the eye in the drawbar for a plow. PO was making it look good and changing fluids but not mechanical problems. Just hoping for a quick ez fix so I could at least drive it and not have to push it around when I need her moved.
 
rtruck200826@aol.com":1zll3g8e said:
Just hoping for a quick ez fix so I could at least drive it and not have to push it around when I need her moved.
Click to expand...

In that case, you might want to try adjusting the clutch fingers through the hole to get it 'good enough' for now.
 
Everything visible through the hand hole looks to be in reasonable condition. That is except finger adjustment, which I can't comment on one way or the other. Try to observe the fingers while cycling the pedal up and down (may need a helper to operate the pedal). See if the fingers move enough to reasonably expect the clutch to release. If so, your problem may be something other than the actual clutch release mechanism. Maybe your clutch disk is stuck to the flywheel or the pilot bearing is binding.
 
Hi,
Lay down under the Cub so you are not upside down, makes it easier to adjust the pressure plate fingers, if you adjust them through the hand hole.
People on here have said with the 1st style of clutch pedal adjustment, the finger height needs to be about 1 1/8" to 1 3/16".

As the clutch disc lining wears, the pressure plate fingers rise, it says that on page 40 of the operator's manual. So if the fingers are too low, you could try adjusting them.

Below is a pic of where to measure to set the finger height. The pressure plate has to be assembled on the flywheel, not off, like the pic. :)
 

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So I got the fingers adjusted to 1 1/8. Were off a 3/32 or so. Got the. 1/8 between fingers and bearing. Could not get the peddle to 1 1/4 play by adjusting the yoke. As I went back with it there was no pushing the fingers. As I came out with it it pushes the fingers but to get the 1/8 gap the peddle bottoms out to stop. Everything moves but will not stop to be able to put in gear. The bearing is not snug on driveshaft. Lots of play when I take the yoke off, is that normal? Lots of oil in there so I used brake cleaner avoiding the bearing, trying to clean off clutch pad. Can't tell for sure but appears to be a thin 1/8 inch pad maybe little thicker. Greased up the bearing as much grease as it would take. It pushed out blue grease from po. So still can't get in gear while running. It will go in/ out gears when shut off no problem. Now the po did change out the shifter could that be something that was missed when he put the new one in. Can't imagine what just grasping at anything. Also when pressing clutch down the engine does slow a bit like clutch is trying to do something. The pto also grinds like shifter.
 
Hi,
I guess you meant there is play when you take the small yoke off the throwout bearing holder.
If the holder moves side to side, or up and down much, no, it shouldn't be loose.
The holes can wear in the holder, and the long pin at the top of the holder can wear.
The holder should be centered in one position so the bearing pushes on the pressure plate fingers.

Evidently someone has changed something on the Cub, it came with the newer adjustment parts, IH's info says. Someone might have put in a rod that is too short.
Below are pics of the rods from TM Tractor.
The 1st page shows the 1st style of rod.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gcl/rod1_001.htm

The 2nd page shows the 2nd style of rod.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gcl/rod2_001.htm

If the transmission shifts normally into all gears when the engine is off, the shifter is not causing any problem.

It is normal for a Cub engine to slow slightly when you push the clutch pedal down, the throwout bearing is solid, it doesn't turn, so there is a little friction when it pushes on the fingers.

I don't know what is wrong with it without being there to see it.
If you have to split the Cub to fix it, I would change the clutch pedal, internal rod, and throwout bearing holder to the newer style.
But you would have to split the Cub at the transmission too, so the clutch housing would be off. The bolt for the clamp that holds the clutch pedal in has to be reached from the rear of the clutch housing, I think.
The clamp, or Lever, in the parts manual pic, is number 4 in the 1st page below.
JP Tractor Salvage at the bottom of the page might have the parts.

Below are pages from the Cub parts manual, you can look at which parts are different.
You don't need part number 23 in the pic. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-04.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-05.jpg
 
The holder holes are not deformed and I do have the 1st style rod from the yoke end with the threads at the bearing. The bearing itself doesn't fit snug on the driveshaft. Guessing it has a big hole not touching the shaft. Even if the rod was too short, makes no difference because I screw the yoke out too far and it will not line up to put the pin in. That is when the yoke has about 1/4 to 5/16 of threaded rod. So than I screwed it back on a few threads to get pin in and far enough to have the 1/8 clearance. Guess I am confused on the part about clutch pedal movement. Is it supposed to hit the stop block or only when it needs adjustment? And even if the pedal hits the stop block with everything working right the driveshaft should still stop turning am I assuming correctly? I have seen the pics of proper measurements of free play to engagement. I am just assuming it shouldn't be hitting the stop block with proper adjustment.Eventually I will have to split the the motor to replace the main seal and can see if there is a clutch pad left.
 
Hi,
The hole in the throwout bearing is bigger than the clutch shaft, the bearing doesn't fit snug on the shaft.
Some cars and trucks have a surface that the bearing fits on, but it is mounted to the transmission, the input shaft goes through the surface.
That is why the bearing holder needs to not have worn holes, so the holder stays in the right position.
Good that yours is not worn.

The normal travel of the clutch pedal is from the platform, down to the stop made into the clutch housing.
You should push it fully down when you want to stop, or shift into gear.
The clutch shaft should stop turning whenever you push the pedal down to the stop.
The clutches may vary some, usually they start engaging when the pedal is about 1"- 2" above the stop.

There should be about 1 3/16" of free play at the top of the pedal travel, measured at the surface where you put your foot.
The operator's manual says if you set the pedal free play, it will automatically have the 1/8" clearance between the throwout bearing, and the fingers.

There should be return springs on all 3 pedals, under the platform, to hold them up to the platform.
If the spring is gone, the pedal won't have any free play, it would go down until the throwout bearing was rubbing on the fingers.

The clutch pedal should move freely at the top of it's travel, except for the pull of the return spring.
Sometimes the pedal base gets tight in the housing from no lube, then it needs oiling and freeing up.

Below is a listing at TM Tractor for a new clutch disc, they don't have a pic of it of the edge, showing the thickness. There were other styles of lining, some are flat, not grooved. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/cl/521fp.htm
 
It almost sounds like your drive shaft is binding in the pilot bushing, so it never stops turning. That is usually what causes grinding when trying to go into gear from neutral. You might see if it will spin down if you wait 3-4 seconds, but some bind hard enough that they will not stop on their own. If you can engage the PTO while not running (you may have to rock it by hand), then you could confirm whether your driveshaft stops turning when the clutch is pushed in. A binding shaft might be able to be fixed with some lubricant sprayed into the center area, or oil dripped down the shaft while on a downhill incline. It could be caused by a dry bushing, or by a bushing that is too tight, or by a bent driveshaft. The latter two require splitting to correct.
 
Glen Thank You for confirming what I was trying to figure out. The springs are all newer. Great information and just what I need to help me understand this system.
Rick that gives me a new avenue to checkout, every little bit of info helps. Could I get to that bushing if I take off the gear shifter cover? Thank you for every one's help. I will post results but it maybe a few weeks before I can get back under that Cub.
 
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