Cant seem to find ND30 Oil

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burntmacncheese

New member
Hello everyone,

I recently was given my uncles 1947 Cub #5281. I live in a suburb of Washington DC and I drive the cub around my neighborhood and park it in my garage. It runs well and I closely study the books that came with the tractor. It is fun seeing the adults and children watch me drive by having never even seen a tractor before. Cub #5281 is basically a "city tractor" at this point.

So here is my stupid question:

I am trying to get some non-detergent SAE30 oil for the tractor. It was rebuilt by my uncle 30 years ago, but it has always run ND30 and he was adamant that I not try to convert it to a modern oil. All the ND30 oil I can buy seems to be intended for air compressors and lubricating oil, and not motor oil. I see some "Valvoline Non Detergent Oil SAE 30 ISO 100". The packaging says its for air compressors and the like. I called the Valvoline hot line and they have said that its the same exact oil and they just changed the marketing.

https://www.amazon.com/Valvoline-SAE-No ... C52&sr=8-4

Can i use this Vavoline in the cub? What ND30 oil do you buy? where do you get it from? Does it say "motor oil" or is it marked as "lubricating oil" for air compressors?
 
Have you been to a store or just looked on Amazon and the internet? What you show is ND30. Tractor Supply Company also sells ND30 in their house brand Traveller and maybe other brands as well. Possible they don't have it on the shelf due to these weird supply issues but you can order to your door or pickup in the store. Walmart use to sell it but I could see them not anymore these days. Any real auto parts store probably has it as well.

Watch out though and read labels if your stuck on useing non detergent I think some of these oils that are labeled SAE30 might be detergent oils.

As far as tractor supply company, I am not sure how much you live in the city but I would bet there is no TSC in DC. There usually in more rural or suburban areas but your definition of suburbs and mine may be different.
 
I would ask why you want non-detergent SAE30? To service it per the manual you also need single weight 10 and 20 and change the oil with the season. In addition, the Cub has an oil filter so a detergent oil is appropriate.

This may start a problem has oil can be a hot button here. It is just my opinion if IH engineers had access to modern oil they would have spec-ed them in the manual. They changed the hydraulic oil recommendation when a better oil became available. A modern 15-40 oil will give the engine better protection than a single weight.
 
The Tractor Supply store in Leesburg should have SAE 30 ND motor oil in several brands and container sizes. Be sure to use motor oil, not lubricating oil. Having said that, I'm not sure what your uncle's reasoning is, other than it's what the manual says. If he is still with us, you may ask him about that. Modern multi-viscosity oils are much better for the engine, though.
 
Don McCombs":2x4fk00y said:
The Tractor Supply store in Leesburg should have SAE 30 ND motor oil in several brands and container sizes. Be sure to use motor oil, not lubricating oil. Having said that, I'm not sure what your uncle's reasoning is, other than it's what the manual says. If he is still with us, you may ask him about that. Modern multi-viscosity oils are much better for the engine, though.
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Agree with Don. If you feel that you have to stick with ND30, then you’ll have to go to the suburbs or beyond. But engine oils have advanced substantially since 1947. I’m using Shell Rotella 15w-40 with no issues.
 
If you don’t have a TSC, or similar store near you, it’s readily available on EBay. Like most others, on here, I use modern oils in all my stuff.
 
inairam":10k3f4bs said:
I would ask why you want non-detergent SAE30? To service it per the manual you also need single weight 10 and 20 and change the oil with the season. In addition, the Cub has an oil filter so a detergent oil is appropriate.

This may start a problem has oil can be a hot button here. It is just my opinion if IH engineers had access to modern oil they would have spec-ed them in the manual. They changed the hydraulic oil recommendation when a better oil became available. A modern 15-40 oil will give the engine better protection than a single weight.
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I also agree with this. I leave my personal opinion out sometimes cause many times especially with oil if a person is dead set on something, no matter what you say they will do what they want. I answered the original question. But I do agree a 15w40 will be a much better oil even a 10w30 would. And yes the cub has filtered oil sooner would want a detergent oil to clean and hold those particles in suspension so that they can be filtered out by the oil filter vs, settling in the bottom of the pan or on internal engine parts as sludge.
 
I keep one quart of ND 30 weight oil on the shop shelf. Use it on Cub implement joints and Cub linkage.

Opinion. Change the oil filter and use multi-weight engine oil. If Uncle comes around and asks about the ND 30 engine oil, I would show him the quart on the shelf and tell him that I use it on the tractor.

Opinion again. Which brand of oils to use? Whichever brand you use in you vehicles.
 
You are going to have trouble finding an ND30 that is labeled "motor oil". Note that the Deere TY26791 mentioned above is, according to the Deere website "High in detergents and dispersants to inhibit oxidation". Note that the Amazon listing you pointed to shows a picture that says "motor oil" . I think the "motor oil" image is a standard one they use for all their Valvoline listings. The image of the actual bottle doesn't mention motor oil anywhere on it. I think this is just a labeling change from the old non-detergent motor oils. No oil company that has its wits would want their non-detergent oil containers to say "motor oil". There is too much risk that somebody will use it in an engine then blame the oi company when the engine breaks down.

Thirty years ago, I would have agreed on using a non-detergent oil in an old engine. However, rebuild time would have been a good time to clean it out and change to a detergent oil. The early detergent oils did have some problems going into old engines. Those problems were mostly worked out 70 or 80 years ago. If you want to stay with ND30, use any of them even if labeled air compressor oil. It will be as good as what has been in it. My inclination would be to change over to a modern detergent oil. Depending on what I see on the dipstick and whatever drains out of the crankcase, I might drop the oil pan and clean out the pan and oil pickup screen.
 
thanks for your replies.

As far as the ND30 oil - What I have been often been told is that if take this tractor that has always had ND30 oil and just switch it to modern 10w-30 or something that it would clean the engine and release stuck on sludge into the engine and clog the screens and filter and wreck the engine. The only way I was told that a modern oil would be possible is if I did a rebuild and opened it up and cleaned everything. I have even seen this information on this site, so I would not like to take that risk.

As far as stores - Yes I have been into the Tractor Supply in Leesburg the only ND30 oil I could find is the Traveller brand and it says "non-detergent multi-purpose lubricant" and it seems to be marketed for air compressors. My questions is this the same as ND30 motor oil? I am hesitant because I don't want to accidently put air compressor oil in my tractor.

1636277


Also, here is a picture of #5281 in my neighborhood. I live in Purcellville, VA, so maybe you don't think its a suburb of DC, opinions vary. The tractor needs cleaning and a tune up, I am still working out how best to do those things.

eGu2dgR.jpg
 
Jim Becker":355onfiv said:
If you want to stay with ND30, use any of them even if labeled air compressor oil. It will be as good as what has been in it. My inclination would be to change over to a modern detergent oil.
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We were writing our replies at the same time, thanks for the information. Its not that I WANT to use ND30, I just don't want to damage the tractor and I don't quite know enough to convert it safely without special help.

Assuming I was going to do it, I would drop the oil pan and clean the pan and screen, and install a new filter and flush out the filter housing. Then just run it and monitor it closely. I am terrified that if I did this and it had a problem, I wouldn't be able to back out of the plan before engine damage.

I feel like I might have to do it eventually anyway as nondetergent oils get phased out. Thanks.
 
I would not pull the pan. A lot can go wrong the bolts are small and a few are hard to get. I would drain it and open the valve cover and spray diesel or kerosene in the valve area. Fill the oil pan with diesel or kerosene and let it sit for a bit. If you have a hand crank maybe turn it over by hand but do not start it with this. Drain ( there is a drain tube next to the filter that should be drained/ cleaned as well) , replace the filter and add detergent oil. You may what to look at some oil additives in the auto parts store related to cleaning. I would run the tractor with motor oil until it is warm (at least 20-30 minutes or longer), then change the filter. I would change the filter frequently and the oil every 2 or 3 times you change the filter. I would do this until the oil still looks brown, not black after it was run for a while. I think the hard part will be getting the run time in living in a development.

You got a nice good looking early cub from your uncle. good luck with it.
 
inairam":2d7v2pzr said:
I would drain it and open the valve cover and spray diesel or kerosene in the valve area. Fill the oil pan with diesel or kerosene and let it sit for a bit.
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There isn't a single right answer. More than a few on this site would agree with inairam's suggestion. I don't think I would do it. I'm concerned that the Diesel or kerosene would recreate the problems from 80 years ago, dislodge some crud that will plug a screen or passage. I'd be more inclined to use a commercial motor flush. I've used something from BG products, which is probably as good as any. I started with a filthy engine. After draining out all the crud it picked up, I still had a filthy engine. I guess they have their limits. I do think pulling the valve cover and seeing what it looks like is a good idea. The accumulation in there would give you a good idea how bad it is. It is probably due for a valve adjustment anyway.

If you decide to pull the valve cover, post a couple pictures of what you find. Then we can post some more contradictory advise!
 
burntmacncheese":1ak9w793 said:
thanks for your replies.

As far as the ND30 oil - What I have been often been told is that if take this tractor that has always had ND30 oil and just switch it to modern 10w-30 or something that it would clean the engine and release stuck on sludge into the engine and clog the screens and filter and wreck the engine. The only way I was told that a modern oil would be possible is if I did a rebuild and opened it up and cleaned everything. I have even seen this information on this site, so I would not like to take that risk.

As far as stores - Yes I have been into the Tractor Supply in Leesburg the only ND30 oil I could find is the Traveller brand and it says "non-detergent multi-purpose lubricant" and it seems to be marketed for air compressors. My questions is this the same as ND30 motor oil? I am hesitant because I don't want to accidently put air compressor oil in my tractor.

1636277


Also, here is a picture of #5281 in my neighborhood. I live in Purcellville, VA, so maybe you don't think its a suburb of DC, opinions vary. The tractor needs cleaning and a tune up, I am still working out how best to do those things.

eGu2dgR.jpg
Click to expand...

As said that's the same stuff. It's an antiquated oil and oil spec. Pretty much no one uses it in an engine anymore so instead of making different oils the same spec works on compressors. They market it for that. You have to remember that TSC oil is fine I use their house brand for oils and fluids and that oil is better than what was available 80 years ago when designing this engine. If your worried , drop the oil pan. It will take 10 minutes (since you don't have cultivators mounted), then 15 more to clean it up and put a new gasket or just use RTV and put it back on. You will see if there is sludge in the pan or on the rotating assembly.
But back to the oil quality anything is way better that what they had 70 years ago. You could probably fill it with 3 qts of kerosene and for the kind of use you put on it, it would run fine forever. Haha. I'm not recommending to use kerosene in place of oil it's just my point is that for your use it would work. Transmission fluid would work for that light duty...but it for sure would knock any crud loose if any.

I would just say think about your decision, consider what many of these guys, many may be close to double my age (I'm 40) are saying. They have decades of real world experience with this, not just reading on the internet. But in the end make the decision your comfortable with. ND30 will work and that tractor will last your life. I'd feel confident that modern oils also would be fine as well and give far superior cold start protection, which is where all your wear will come from anyway for your use. And a start at 80-90°f ambient temperature is still a cold start as far as an engine is concerned...it's just not as bad as a 20°f start is.
 
Jim Becker":3arqifmy said:
inairam":3arqifmy said:
I would drain it and open the valve cover and spray diesel or kerosene in the valve area. Fill the oil pan with diesel or kerosene and let it sit for a bit.
Click to expand...


If you decide to pull the valve cover, post a couple pictures of what you find. Then we can post some more contradictory advise!
Click to expand...
:tractor: :lol: :lol: :lol: :tractor: :mrgreen:
 
Jim, this is just to clean the pan. The galleries and other internals will not be were affected/ cleaned. This would just be to avoid removing the pan.

My main point is removing the pan has risks of its own and removing the pan does not reduce the risks of clogging from the gunk in other parts of the engine.
 
inairam":1hoqy8c2 said:
Jim, this is just to clean the pan. The galleries and other internals will not be were affected/ cleaned. This would just be to avoid removing the pan.

My main point is removing the pan has risks of its own and removing the pan does not reduce the risks of clogging from the gunk in other parts of the engine.
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Not being a troll here. I'm just curious. What are the potential "dangers" removing an oil pan?
 
Hey I am just going to Welcome you to the forum Burnt.
Good luck with your project and Enjoy Your Ride.
 
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