c-3 mower mule

[smallfarm]

I am not to familiar with the c-3 mower--until I bought one. I have had a lot of belt problems. The larger portion of these were solved with new and correct sized belts. Thanks to all who guided me through this. The majority of the remaining trouble was a badly worn (through) and bent mule pulley. For the most part it now is reasonably quiet and cuts nicely. I managed to finally get the 3 acres I wanted mowed cut--although I abused both the tractor and mower doing it. The grass and weeds were at F-cub radiator cap height by the time I got through the first time. After a few mowings it actually looks like a lawn. So here's the question.

I know I had a lot of problems because of the height of things, but now that I am mowing a lawn, I still throw the main belt between the PTO pulley and the PTO plate. The belt makes an half twist in doing so, but the mower runs fine with no indication things are out of wack until I smell "hot belt" rubber.

To the best of what I can tell things are aligned correctly, or as close as possible. I suspect that the mule was broken and welded together wrong. Don't ask for details why I didn't use a perfectly good C-2 to mow such high grass--just accept that my stuff is currently spread across 3 houses in two states and "She who must be obeyed" put it lower on the priority list. Looking at my C-2 mule the pulley mounts are parallel; my C-3 pulleys ride more than a few degrees off parallel. Is this correct? Ideas why I can't keep the drive belt on? I know that the left pulley is a fair bit lower than the right, but it rides better keeping that side of the belt as long as practical.

 

[Don McCombs]

Show us a photo of the belt and pulleys from a position parallel to the PTO pulley.

 

[ntrenn]

No expert on c2 - c3 but the pulley you show in your pictures is woods 42 compatible (c2?) and the wokds 59 (c3) uses a smaller drive pulley. People here have posted the correct diameter. Believe it or not, you can buy the pulleys from mcmaster....about as cheap as anywhete.

 

[tmays]

Yeah those brackets look wrong to me. Did you put the twist in the belt, or does running the mower do it like that? At any rate, belt is not on right.

 

[smallfarm]

The belt twist is what happens while mowing. I have tried an assortment of tension and pulley locations and found that keeping the belt long on the left side and tighter than I think it should be helps. The best result is "correct" tension with the deck UP (too tight when down). Keeping the RPMs low helps also. After untold hours of full throttle, hard 1/4 passes the 52 cub enjoys the rest of mowing a lawn.



Everything is in the way of a clear photo. The PTO pulley is as far forward as it can go. It is a shade to far back, but should let the belt ride OK.

 

[ntrenn]

Again...coming from a woods guy....
The wide pulley creates additional misalignment between the drive pulley and the mule pulleys. You get extra side face rubbing

The woods belt does a 3/4 turn on the left pulley. Not sure on the c3.

Once a belt rolls over it will forever roll over.

With the bigger pulley the mower will pull much harder and the belt loads are higher. Both of my cubs have the smaller pulley with the 59 and they have good blade speed and cut great.

 

[tst]

I run two cubs with a C3 for years, there are no twist in the belts, have no problems with them

 

[JohnMihevic]

. . . belt long on the left side , , ,

According to the C3 manual, the right side belt should the long side. Item 7 on page 11 of my C3 manual says “. . . adjust the left idler “A” between 1 and 1-1/2 inches from the top of the idler to the top of the adjustment slot. Adjust the right idler “B” downward until proper belt tension is obtained . . .”

This is how I set my C3 mower up and never had a problem. Following these instructions results in the left side pulley to be much higher than the right side pulley. Photos in the C3 manual show this also.

Also, be sure you have the right drive belt:
IH 487046R1 = Cub Cadet # 754-3052

John M.

 

[smallfarm]

John, what you said makes perfect sense, however, the left side must be as long as possible on my mower or it throws the belt. Can anyone compare the first photos and the following photos of the angle of the "adjustment slots" and the idler pulleys to a good working mower? It seems to me that the left one is welded on at the wrong angle???? The belt has good alignment on the right side, but the left it rides to the right on top and bottom. A smaller PTO pulley would make the top worse. The left pulley points left of the edge of the middle deck pulley and is far from parallel to the right pulley. The drive belt vibrates a lot between the PTO pulley and the left mule pulley. I think this is because it is trying to ride up the right side of a misaligned left pulley??? What I think happens next, is the vibration makes it around the deck and right mule pulley, but the tight belt-- loose belt caused by the vibration throws to much slack between the right mule pulley and PTO pulley and "throws it between the PTO pulley and the rear rockshaft plate. By my limited reasoning this is why it runs reasonably well VERY tight. AND mows easy and smooth at 3/4 throttle in second gear (uphill into the wind :roll: )

Again, before I buy ANOTHER belt, can anyone look at the angles of my mule pulleys and compare to a known good mule.

Thanks

 

[tst]

Mine are just like yours, one is more off set

 

[JohnMihevic]

The offset pulley angles look like mine. I took some measurements. The distance between the pulley brackets at the top is 4-5/16” and at the bottom it is 3-1/8”. The distance from the left bracket to the left side mount is 5-3/16”. The main difference is that my left pulley is higher. I would try it high up with the right pulley lower. Below are some pics of mine I just took.
John M.

 

[Smokeycub]

I'm am a Woods user as well but after studying your pictures it appears the left mule drive pulley is pitched to the left too far, or cocked to the left, causing wear to the inside of the belt, after time weakening it and allowing it to roll. That pitch looks to be built into your mule drive. The vertical and horizontal alignment of those two pulleys need to be pretty much dead on or you'll have premature wear on your belt.

 

[Jim Becker]

The first thing you need to do is get the right size pulley for the PTO shaft, before you mess something else up trying to compensate for it.
The second thing is to remove both of the adjustable pulleys and check for bent pulleys and attachment bolts.
The third thing is to lower the deck to mowing position and adjust the left pulley so the belt is aimed directly at the center of the pulley on the mower deck then adjust the right pulley for proper tension. From your pictures, it appears that you have the belt twisted so the back/top side runs against the adjustable pulleys. Try twisting it the other way, so the inner side is against the pulleys.
If that doesn't fix it, the fourth thing is to check alignment of the adjustable pulleys, probably buy a new belt, and repeat step three.

Which pulley does the belt jump off of? I read your original post that it is coming off the PTO pulley to the front side.

 

[smallfarm]

I hate to beat a dead horse, BUT
The picture #2 on my original post shows what happens to the belt. The belt is twisted correctly when I start mowing. The rest of my pictures show the belt on as I would run the mower. The second picture in the third group I posted best shows the misalignment I think is at the root of the problem. The left pulley (top of photo) shows the belt riding to the right side of the pulley both top and bottom (PTO side being top and deck side being bottom). If one were to place a straight edge on the mounting bracket and aim to the front, the belt misses the edge of the center deck pulley by several inches to the left. Likewise, the pulley points to the left of the oversized (and thus partially compensating for the angle) pulley. In other words if the PTO pulley were smaller in diameter, the left mule pulley would be missed by even more. The mule pulleys are straight with good bearings and the bolts are likewise both the correct style, clean, straight and with good threads.

To me it appears that the left pulley is pointing to the left as viewed from above, AND to the left as viewed from behind.

As Jim Becker suggested
.........If that doesn't fix it, the fourth thing is to check alignment of the adjustable pulleys,.......

Anyone have a "loose" mule that was on a working mower and a protractor for measurements??

Thanks to all for the input so far.

 

[Jim Becker]

Dead horses or not, your second picture shows a belt that has turned over but still in the groves of all pulleys that can be seen. You stated that your problem was a thrown belt. As already stated, once a belt turns over it will generally continue to do so.

 

[smallfarm]

Picture is not clear. It appears in the picture that the belt is in the PTO pulley grouves. It is not! It is in FRONT of the pulley. It is running on the forward side of the pulley with the not rotating mount plate for the rockshaft acting as the other shoulder of the pulley. The rockshaft mount plate keeps the belt from falling completely off the pulley and onto the PTO shaft. The mower runs this way until I smell burnt (hot) rubber and have to buy ANOTHER belt because I know it is now trashed. I have an ruined belt on the mower now, I will simulate the situation and send a picture later.
Thanks to all

 

[Urbish]

No expert on c2 - c3 but the pulley you show in your pictures is woods 42 compatible (c2?) and the wokds 59 (c3) uses a smaller drive pulley. People here have posted the correct diameter. Believe it or not, you can buy the pulleys from mcmaster....about as cheap as anywhete.

If you're looking to acquire a new drive pulley commercially, note that it's an H-bore, taper bushing sheave with a 6.1" pitch diameter (6.45" OD). This site has it for $16 +shipping (http://www.electricmotorwarehouse.c...hing-not-included-bk67h/#sthash.T3Oxuqul.dpbs)

Here are a bunch of different ones in that size on Amazon.com as well: https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=BK67H

OR place an ad on The Vine. Someone on here may have one to sell.

 

[JohnMihevic]

. . . If one were to place a straight edge on the mounting bracket and aim to the front, the belt misses the edge of the center deck pulley by several inches to the left . . .

I put a straight edge on the bottom edge of the left mounting bracket for my C3 mower and held it parallel to the left angle channel that is fastened to the mower deck. The distance from the straight edge to the center of the drive pulley spindle is 4-1/2". So the left idler pulley is to the left of the mower drive spindle.

John M.

 

[smallfarm]

I know that the left mule pulley is left of the center deck pulley, but does it point toward the pulley or 90 degrees off the mule as seen from above and thus AWAY from the center deck pulley. To go from the pulley straight to the left side of the deck pulley, the belt has to make a turn to the right. It is not a gentle rub on one side of the idler -- it has rubbed holes in the side of the pulley in less than 20 hrs of run time on the right from excessive belt rub.

Basically I need to know the angle of the pulley adjustment slot from the mule cross bar.......
As measured from the rear, how many degrees from straight up and down
As measured from above, how many degrees from straight out (forward toward the deck pulley)

Dead horses or not, your second picture shows a belt that has turned over but still in the groves of all pulleys that can be seen. You stated that your problem was a thrown belt. As already stated, once a belt turns over it will generally continue to do so.

I must apologize for confusion. A closer look at the picture does not show what I thought. The belt rolled completely over on the PTO pulley in that picture. I mowed last night and this picture shows what usually happens (It happens a lot because I am not putting new belt on until something changes or the belts will put me in the poor house). Strangely it runs just fine like this -- my only indication that something is wrong is the smell of hot/burnt rubber from riding against the rockshaft mounting plate.

 

[Smokeycub]

I said it before and I'll say it again...

The vertical and horizontal alignment of those two pulleys need to be pretty much dead on or you'll have premature wear on your belt.

All you need to do is align that mule drive pulley, wearing out the side of a pulley is pretty extreme. Knowing the angle or whatever (while interesting perhaps) is just making things complicated. In my experience line of sight and a straight edge work pretty well.