Broke my SC…

S

Smokeycub

501 Club
My Super C has always been reliable, starts, drives, functions as is should. The other day I got on it just to move it. Pushed in the clutch, put it gear, ready to go and it won’t move. !?!?!? Tried all the gears - nothing. It makes a little grind noise when I put it in gear, normal. It makes no odd sounds with the clutch out. I let it sit for a day and tried again (lol - what do they say about expecting different results…) So I tried pushing the brake pedals one at a time with the clutch out. When I press the left brake the tractor moved, it moved well enough I put it in the shop.

That tells me everything back to the final drives is working. I can’t imagine the bull gear or axle is broken, but that’s exactly where the problem seems to be. Like I said the whole drive line is relatively silent when in gear with the clutch out.

Any insights?? …or helpful (good) news?
Thanx - Ray. (Where’s my coffee cup?)
 
Hey Ray. Strange that you pushed the brake and it moved....you think they are seized? I would think that it would strain and it would stall out
 
I would jack the rears up and run it, make sure the wheels are free, look through the clutch hole if it has one and see if the imput shaft is spinning, can you see the clutch from the outside ?
 
Depending on what you have (if anything) for fertilizer drives, you may be able to see the outer end of the differential shafts. They are at the center of the brake housings. If you can see them, try to move the tractor while observing them. You will probably see the left one turning. That will confirm a problem with the bull gear or axle (likely axle) rather than something strange going on in the brakes themselves.
 
ajhbike said:
Hey Ray. Strange that you pushed the brake and it moved....you think they are seized? I would think that it would strain and it would stall out
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input. I believe the brakes are fine - maybe due for some new disc pads and adjustment, but otherwise work as they should.
 
tst said:
I would jack the rears up and run it, make sure the wheels are free, look through the clutch hole if it has one and see if the imput shaft is spinning, can you see the clutch from the outside ?
Click to expand...
I did jack up the left side enough for the tire to clear the ground, the right side still touching. With the engine off and trans in gear and clutch out I can freely spin the left wheel. It rolls easily and silently. Because the tractor will move when I press the left brake I’m confident that everything from the flywheel through the stub shaft is working as it should. That only leaves the bull gear and the axle.
 
Jim Becker said:
Depending on what you have (if anything) for fertilizer drives, you may be able to see the outer end of the differential shafts. They are at the center of the brake housings. If you can see them, try to move the tractor while observing them. You will probably see the left one turning. That will confirm a problem with the bull gear or axle (likely axle) rather than something strange going on in the brakes themselves.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Unless I’m missing something I believe by pressing the left brake under power (and the tractor rolls) pretty much tells me the differential shaft is ok. When I had the wheel off the ground I tried to move it in and out, thinking if the axle were broken it could move coaxially, it seemed pretty secure that way as well. I’m in the process of taking the trans cover off (oh joy!) and I’ll let you know what I find.
 
Well, the results are in and the prognosis isn’t good. …and again, Mr Becker is correct as usual.
D1BE5388-28DF-47BD-8E9A-8A783A1425B0.jpeg3FB15D73-C082-4370-BB87-3720768638E4.jpeg76363748-AFCF-46C3-B118-AB0EEF1DAAB2.jpeg
The splined part of the axle is 2” diameter. The rotation section looks to have twisted nearly 20 degrees. The internal splines on the bull gear about 2” deep and 1/2 to 5/8” are broken off all the way around.
I can’t imagine the stress needed to do that, yet - there we are. At the least I need another axle and another bull gear.
 
Last edited:
…another peculiarly is the other bull gear assembly isn’t the same as the one that broke.
CF94E4CE-6271-4C3D-8D80-9B855C27DBE3.jpeg887CEF58-EE6E-415D-BD58-9DD4A8DAF47A.jpeg
The other bull gear is a 2 piece, riveted together, and the axle has two tapped holes for a retainer, this is not either, a solid one piece casting and no tapped holes.
Does a regular C use this setup?
Does anyone know of a reasonably priced salvage yard in NE Ohio or NW Pa that could help a fella out? I remember one near New Castle but can’t think of the name or exactly where it is.
 
Last edited:
Holy mackerel, Ray... how big was the chuck hole to cause that. I recall seeing a few SC's being parted out up here...I will look. Do you know if it is specific to an SC or does it fit others...that would help to know.

edit...I reread it and if an axle is needed it would be specific
 
Well, you aren't the first person to be in there. I don't know much about the different retaining methods used here. Between what I recall and can look up for this series:

The C originally used 3/8" bolts in the end of the axle with a retainer to hold the gear on. The bull gear was riveted. The same parts continued onto the Super C, 200 and 230. Some time during 200/230 production they started producing one-piece gears that were interchangeable with the riveted ones. I think that any C though 230 parts will interchange. Note that there were 3 different axle lengths available. You will want your replacement axle to match the right length.

With the 240, they changed to a snap ring to hold the gear on the axle. I believe that neither parts will interchange with the earlier models. However, I believe that if BOTH parts are changed in together they can be used. That appears to be what your tractor currently has. One of your pictures (#5) appears to show a bull gear retained by a snap ring.
 
Well, it’s completely apart now. Trans cover is out of the way and the axle and housing are off. Let the cleaning and scraping begin, got to get all the crunchy’s out of the differential case… Out of what seems to have been a thousand bolts and nuts I only broke two. One was on the u-bolt that holds on the fender. The other was a 3/8” bolt that threads into the trans cover, one of two holes in the cover that is threaded, and of course it won’t budge, totally fused. Tried miracle in a can, cleaned it up, heated it with oxy acetylene and no joy. Probably gonna have to drill and tap it.
Found the replacement parts at Burgh Implements (thanks Bill Hudson) and I’m picking them up tomorrow, two hour round trip. Only took a week so far, not too bad for an old arthritic guy and a buddy.397E1D93-68F7-4A73-8CB0-F2F31BC7D5A5.jpegF0FE4538-27E5-48EE-BC08-08F82CEC10D9.jpeg3E568B52-40CE-47E4-8BD3-537DF69BCBF1.jpeg
 
I spent a few hours cleaning and scraping today. Found a few more chunks of axle and bull gear shrapnel but the differential case is clean. Worked on cleaning up the new axle as well, even got the inboard mounting flange gasket off intact.
I ordered new inner and outer seals yesterday. Prices for those were all over the place too. I called Steiners, they have the seals and the outboard gasket, would have been $44 plus their std $14 shipping and tax, would have over $60. Seemed pretty expensive to me. I think they’re making a killing on shipping. I ordered SKF seals through SummitRacing believe it or not for less than $30, they’ll be here in about a week, not a problem and I don’t mind the drive to Talmadge, I enjoy perusing the aisles at Summit too.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top