Breaking up concrete steps

[lyle11]

Thanks Eugene. I was intending to look this up after you mentioned it. I’ve seen at a granite countertop installer big slabs of granite with a holes drilled in a line where this is apparently the method they used to break it along a line before it’s custom cut to size.

For the cost of concrete bits and a set of these feathers and wedges this looks the most promising of any idea proposed. I guess it’ll be curious with the thickness of concrete if a crack started will continue all the way through 3-4’.

I’m gonna buy a concrete bit or two of the required size first to see how that goes and if that works, I’ll buy a set of these. My concern is that it’s chocked full of those reddish-pink colored rocks readily available after plowing unearths them which are much harder than concrete. But, I’m thinking the top few inches are probably all concrete and if I can get a crack started it may continue through.

 

[lyle11]

That would work, but his concrete is 6’X4’X3’. That thing would weigh between 10,000 and 12,000 pounds.

Your 10000 to 12000 pounds would be ok if it was a solid rectangle of concrete.

150# per square foot (soild).

A (solid) rectangle block 4x4x6 is 72cuft, for a weight of 10800# +/-

Chances are it is 1 to 2 tons!

Obviously I’ll never know how much it weighs. Knowing my father, I’m sure he used concrete mixed with sand exactly as recommended. It also has a lot of the smooth reddish-pink colored rocks you see unearthed here when fields are plowed. Cheap filler readily available in the country on farmer’s rock piles so I’m sure he used a lot of them to save concrete. Not sure how much they weigh compared to concrete. It has the hollow for the dog house but it’s one massive chunk.

 

[Mht]

Concrete bits of any size are almost useless in a regular drill. If you don’t have a hammer drill plan on getting one. If you are going to buy one get one that uses splined or sds style bits. A regular Chuck on a hammer drill is always working loose

 

[Don McCombs]

I guess it’ll be curious with the thickness of concrete if a crack started will continue all the way through 3-4’.
But, I’m thinking the top few inches are probably all concrete and if I can get a crack started it may continue through.

I have my doubts, as concrete with imbedded rock does not have the same type of “grain” that granite or marble might have. I do hope it works for you, though.

 

[SamsFarm]

The big question is whether it has any rebar and / or mesh wire in it.

Without the reinforcement wire, it will probably crack up a lot easier!

 

[Don McCombs]

Hadn’t thought of that. But, you are absolutely correct. With steel reinforcing, all bets are off.

 

[lyle11]

The big question is whether it has any rebar and / or mesh wire in it.

Without the reinforcement wire, it will probably crack up a lot easier!

I can answer that question. It is not reinforced with rebar or any metal. Only a lot of rocks for filler. I know this because I helped my father pour them when I was a young whipper-snapper. The rocks used are very hard, not sandstone. So I’m sure the rocks are very unlikely to crack but I’m hoping it acts like chips in a cookie and the concrete crumbles and fractures around them.

 

[Don McCombs]

Sounds like chunks of Great Lakes granite deposited by the ice sheet.

 

[lyle11]

Sounds like chunks of Great Lakes granite deposited by the ice sheet.

I’ve never been there but a few miles away they have a little museum called the Ice Age Center. I remember back in school learning about how the glacier came through this area and sculpted the land creating the lakes and hills we have now. I don’t see those glaciers here anymore, so I guess climate change has been around a long time. I don’t know anything specifically about the makeup of the red rocks. There is a lot of sandstone here too.

The area is rich in fine sand that is used in fracking and other industries. About 10-15 years ago we got a lot of Southwest based oil companies buying farms for 5 times their agricultural value to mine for sand. It was hauled by truck then rail. But, like most booms it went bust 2-3 years ago when they came up with cheaper alternatives or sand closer geographically to where they used it. Now we have big areas dug up and abandoned mines with conveyors and buildings and piles of sand. They were required to mound up and seed over the top soil and “reclaim” the land for agricultural or other use after the sand was extracted. Not sure how long they have to do the reclamation, or if funds were put aside before they started. I used to hear the low hum of equipment 3-4 miles away 24 hours a day but now it’s quiet again. I honestly don’t know if it’ll ever come back. Fortunately for me, it was approaching my place but is not visible. A few people got rich, but to avoid capital gains the people I know bought more farm land with nicer houses and buildings and are right back to farming or renting farm land but now they own it free and clear. I was never approached by the sand miners about selling, but I have only 80 acres. They didn’t want my neighbor with 300+ acres directly visible to the north because a gas pipeline runs through that property. It’s not that bad. Maybe 1 in 20 farms was mined is my wild guess. But once they bought one farm they tended to want adjacent properties and soon they had a thousand acres. If it was right by you it ruined your quiet country life and hurt your property value.

 

[Bill]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pslnI0IPEc8

 

[lyle11]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pslnI0IPEc8

We burn brush or old scrap wood periodically. I started a fire close to the steps and heard small explosions. I feel foolish to admit it but I thought initially there must have been old ammo in the barrel of wood I used to start the fire. Then I saw the small chunks of concrete breaking off and remembered shop class and being warned not to let hot metal pool on the concrete floor. So, I saw that this works.

It’s way too dry there now to start a fire. Not a drought but there is a lot of corn planted and it shows damage from lack of rain but, as of the last time I was there, we got rain and the corn recovered but if it doesn’t rain more it’ll wilt.

If I could get a hole through the dog house opening at the bottom for ventilation a nice hot fire in the dog house opening would do a lot to loosen and break up that area.

Might do that this fall if we get some rain.

Thanks

 

[Don B.]

This reminds me of a time back when I was in college when a middle eastern student group was protesting who knows what back in their home country. They had built about a half dozen small fires evenly spaced around a courtyard right on the sidewalks. Small campfires - no more than about 2 feet across. After a short period, the concrete began to explode, riddling them with concrete shrapnel. No serious injuries, but it apparently stung some of them pretty good. The hilarious part was that they at first thought they were being fired upon by their enemies (which I don't think there were any within 6,000 miles). :lol: The fires left 12 inch diameter by 2 inch deep reddish craters in the sidewalk. Good times.

 

[SamsFarm]

Are you in a hurry?

Whats one more year, flip it upside down, let it fill with water and let that freeze in the winter.

If that dont do the trick, drill a drain hole in it and let the winters water out, then build a roaring fire in it, and try the fire trick.

Or put the word out that thrill seekers with a rifle that uses the 50bmg cartridge can use it for target pratice!

 

[lyle11]

It has sat in this spot for over 15 years so, I certainly haven’t been in a hurry. But, recently I gotten tired of mowing around it. I don’t have a timeline. I would just like to make progress on getting it broke up. It has been used as a backstop for 30-30, 30-06, 44-40, and 38 Special and damage is minimal.

 

[lyle11]

I had one other idea and wanted to get opinions. I own a reciprocating saw (Sawsall). I see they sell blades designed to cut masonry/concrete/rock.

I was thinking about trying the saw to cut through on each side of the dog house opening and then perhaps a wedge and hammer to split it at that point. Also, I might be able to cut a couple of the steps off with an extra long blade.

My sister was there and took a couple of pictures of the steps. I’m just wondering if anyone has any experience using a reciprocating saw to cut concrete and has an opinion about this approach.

Thanks

 

[Don McCombs]

Just thinking out loud. Does the doghouse hole go all the way through?

 

[lyle11]

Just thinking out loud. Does the doghouse hole go all the way through?

No it doesn’t. I never measured it but, pure guess there is 6”-8” behind it. My other thought is, if I can make cuts with this saw, a couple of vertical parallel cuts and a big hammer might knock that section out. If I can get the sides of the doghouse removed, then I would have access to the remaining material that’s flat in the ground and maybe a jackhammer will split it.

Since I don’t need it gone right away, I just want to make some progress on reducing the size and weight and can use different methods as I work on it.

 

[Don McCombs]

More thinking, now that we see what it looks like…
I’m not sure what the maximum length of a reciprocating saw concrete blade is, but I’ll bet it’s probably not going to be long enough. I don’t think I’d want to be hanging onto a reciprocating saw for the length of time it would take to make one cut, anyway. How about a rental chainsaw type pavement/concrete saw for the weakening cuts? It probably won’t cut the full depth, but it would be a lot faster. Around here, they rent for $55 to $65 a day. You could likely do what you need to do in one day.

 

[Mht]

I think a gas powered saw will be the only way to go with a saw. Anything else will be a waste of time and blades. If that was on my property where I can have fires I’ll build a big fire in on and around that set of steps after I had soaked all that concrete with a hose and had it as saturated with water as it would get. A good hot fire a time or two around those steps and I bet a lot of that concrete would be cracked and busted up from the steam that’s going to come out of that concrete. Another thought is to line that opening with a plastic bag this winter and then fill with water and let freeze. That water expanding when it freezes might bust it apart

 

[lyle11]

Regarding blades, I did a quick check and Menards has 18” long blades for $36. The landing side of the steps, I’m almost sure, is pure concrete with no rocks. I’m sure there are better and faster ways but I might try it for the cost of one $36 blade. The base side has a lot of rocks and might be a waste of time.