I have a problem with the anti rattle springs on my 582 breaking. These are the double hooked springs that clip over the clutch plate and secure it to the rear drive disc. They are breaking just above the hook. I am buying them at the local CC dealer at $2.50 a piece. I just replaced two missing ones last week and I noticed after mowing yesterday another one was broken. I found it on top of the mower deck under the top cover. Is there something else more reliable I could use instead of these springs?
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Anti Rattle Springs
- Thread starter Chevyguy
- Start date
gitractorman
501 Club
I would take the drive line apart, maybe even remove the drive shaft and clutch assembly completely, and inspect everything for wear. Those springs should last forever, or well, maybe 40-years or so. Something else is wrong causing excessive play in the clutch and breaking the springs. Also, look closely at the broken pieces, and maybe remove an unbroken one to see if they are being cut by the clutch disk. It could be that the rubber drive shaft couplings are worn out letting the drive shaft and clutch flop around.
Another thing to check, the quietline tractors are known for wearing out the rubber ISO motor mounts. The 1000 series tractors are much worse about it than the x82, but they do wear out commonly. If the motor mounts are worn out they let the engine move around inside the frame, and put the clutch out of alignment because the engine torque pulls it around inside the frame. This causes the drive shaft and clutch parts to wear out or wear excessively. Also, it will wear out the motor mounting bolts, the oil pan, and the frame, where they all start touching and grinding into each other. If you can grab the engine and shake it side to side, the motor mounts are worn out. A lot of folks don't even know that there are rubber motor mounts in those tractors, so I've seen them completely gone and the engine just flopping around in the frame. I saw one that the oil pan was worn down about 1/4" on one side where it had been rubbing on the mounting and the bushing was completely gone.
Anyway, don't bother with some replacement for the springs until you check all these things. Otherwise, you're not really fixing the problem.
Bill
Another thing to check, the quietline tractors are known for wearing out the rubber ISO motor mounts. The 1000 series tractors are much worse about it than the x82, but they do wear out commonly. If the motor mounts are worn out they let the engine move around inside the frame, and put the clutch out of alignment because the engine torque pulls it around inside the frame. This causes the drive shaft and clutch parts to wear out or wear excessively. Also, it will wear out the motor mounting bolts, the oil pan, and the frame, where they all start touching and grinding into each other. If you can grab the engine and shake it side to side, the motor mounts are worn out. A lot of folks don't even know that there are rubber motor mounts in those tractors, so I've seen them completely gone and the engine just flopping around in the frame. I saw one that the oil pan was worn down about 1/4" on one side where it had been rubbing on the mounting and the bushing was completely gone.
Anyway, don't bother with some replacement for the springs until you check all these things. Otherwise, you're not really fixing the problem.
Bill
This tractor has new bearings on both ends of the drive shaft, new drive shaft,springs,throw out bearing,drive plates and clutch plate. The motor is securely mounted to the frame. I agree your suggestions could cause this problem, but not in my case. Since I am having this problem with both of my 582 tractors, I'm more inclined to believe that these springs were a good idea that just doesn't work.
gitractorman
501 Club
I still doubt that the springs are the problem since most of them lasted well past 30-years without trouble (in most Cub Cadet tractors). I've replaced those springs in multiple Cub Cadet 124 tractors that I've rebuilt, and they are still going strong today.
If all that work has been done to the driveline, it is quite possible that the driveline is not aligned properly. Factory original tractors would not have had this problem, but as bolt holes wear and become oblong, it is easy to have the engine bolted down securely, but actually have it at an angle in the frame, causing the driveline to be out of alignment. Honestly, it's worth taking a look. I would depress the clutch, lock it down, then measure with calipers the distance between the friction plate and the pressure plate at different locations around the clutch. That is where you would see the misalignment. It would be easy to loosen the engine mounting bolts to straighten things out, but it will take some checking and patients.
The 582 is one of the highest horsepower Cub Cadet tractors that was available with the gear drive transmission, 16-hp Briggs engine. It wouldn't surprise me that the clutch wears quickly in this tractor, but if it's aligned properly, it should last a good long time, as should all of the clutch parts, unless someone is hammering on it and abusing it.
If all that work has been done to the driveline, it is quite possible that the driveline is not aligned properly. Factory original tractors would not have had this problem, but as bolt holes wear and become oblong, it is easy to have the engine bolted down securely, but actually have it at an angle in the frame, causing the driveline to be out of alignment. Honestly, it's worth taking a look. I would depress the clutch, lock it down, then measure with calipers the distance between the friction plate and the pressure plate at different locations around the clutch. That is where you would see the misalignment. It would be easy to loosen the engine mounting bolts to straighten things out, but it will take some checking and patients.
The 582 is one of the highest horsepower Cub Cadet tractors that was available with the gear drive transmission, 16-hp Briggs engine. It wouldn't surprise me that the clutch wears quickly in this tractor, but if it's aligned properly, it should last a good long time, as should all of the clutch parts, unless someone is hammering on it and abusing it.
Steve Woods
Well-known member
How important are the rattle springs anyway? Is running without them on my 108 doing any harm other than annoying me with the rattling sound?
gitractorman
501 Club
No, they really do nothing to help the operation of the tractor.
Matt Kirsch
501 Club
Here's a thought: Are the same springs breaking over and over, or are you working your way through replacing a bunch of old springs that have been in there for 30-40 years? Even the 82 series are 30 year old now.
Another thought: Perhaps all the springs should be replaced at once? When one breaks, undue strain is placed on the rest. By the time you replace the broken spring, the rest are fatigued and ready to break. A vicious cycle?
Another thought: Perhaps all the springs should be replaced at once? When one breaks, undue strain is placed on the rest. By the time you replace the broken spring, the rest are fatigued and ready to break. A vicious cycle?
Matt Kirsch":g4fnernb said:Here's a thought: Are the same springs breaking over and over, or are you working your way through replacing a bunch of old springs that have been in there for 30-40 years? Even the 82 series are 30 year old now.
Another thought: Perhaps all the springs should be replaced at once? When one breaks, undue strain is placed on the rest. By the time you replace the broken spring, the rest are fatigued and ready to break. A vicious cycle?
I have replaced them with all new ones only for them to break again. And this is on a tractor (582) that is used very little. Mainly going to tractor shows. They have started breaking within a 2 or 3 months of putting them on.
After checking everything out, there are no alignment issues that would cause these springs to break. All of the springs were new when I installed them as the tractor came to me without any. As I stated in my earlier post, these springs are breaking at the point where they are torqued to wrap behind the clutch plate. The break isn't a clean break. The top half of the spring extends beyond the bottom portion at the break. Picture a tree limb with a ragged cut into the limb until the lower portion pulls away and breaks off behind the first cut. In my opinion, the springs we get today aren't made of strong enough steel to withstand that torsional stress. The rattling noise that you hear when you shut the engine off without the springs installed is the clutch plate banging back and forth on the three drive pins that over time will enlarge the holes in the clutch plate, so I believe they are necessary. Until I come up with a better way to hold the clutch plate in place, I'll keep replacing the darn things as they break.