154 PTO clutch rebuild
- Thread starter washbb
- Start date
I'm very surprised that the engineers never thought to using the front engine crank pulley to run a Pto shaft to the rear for a live PTO. It would of worked on any of there tractors too like the fcub. Two more vee belts and a jack shaft to the rear would of been simple. Heck they could of even driven a snowblower off the front too.
I removed the PTO setup completely out of my FEL project 154 thinking i have a spare one. I'm sitting back all fat dumb and happy that i got an extra backup Pto assembly right? Guess what i tried it when i repaired my pto the first time and found out the holes in the tranny don't line up when the shaft is all the way in the pto drive shaft. This was on my 70 int154 and the extra pto is from my late 60's int154. But i still have another late 60's int154 so its parts for that one. Now i realize the newer int154's are different from the older ones. I think its the location of the drive shaft pulley. The older int154 has the pulley on the driveshaft while the newer int154 has the pto pulley on the rear flywheel before the driveshaft. This means there are two different pto shaft lengths.
I found these instructions and pictures at another website - they were contributed by Barry_s_u on May 8, 2004. I thought that they might be of use to some of you here. NJDale - Copied & Pasted;
First of all, find out if you have a 154, 185, or 184. The 184s were
always red and have an electri PTO toggle switch on the dash, the 154
and 185 were white/yellow with a mechanical PTO lever to the left of
the seat. IF you really have a 154 or 185 you can read the treatise
on roto-cam, below. If you have a 184, someone else needs to respond
since I am not familiar with the electric PTO.
Roto-Cam PTO Clutch sticking or slipping....for 154 or 185 tractors...
You probably need to re-build the roto-cam PTO clutch at the back end
of the tractor. I just did this and your symptoms are consistent with
either too tight a disc pack, badly chewed up friction discs, or a
cracked PTO output shaft.
You can remove the PTO clutch easily to examine it by pulling any
pulley guard off the back of your tractor, remove the pulley and pull
off the larger panel held on by three bolts (one on each side and one
at the top behind the seat). Once that's off, you can easily see the
PTO clutch assembly. It fits into a "cup" that's at the end of the
intermediate PTO shaft. You can remove the actuating arm at this
point and remove the 3 - 3/4" bolts that hold the assembly to the
tractor. Depending on how the other part of the roto-cam actuating
disc is held in place (either by a pin or a loose bolt/nut - to allow
freedom of movement to prevent binding) you should be able to pull
the PTO assembly straight back out of the tractor.
Your Case/IH dealer or cub cadet dealer should be able to get you the
Roto-cam rebuild kit complete with (crappy) instructions. You would
be best to follow the instructions as much as possible after
carefully removing the parts by pulling off the spring clip that
holds everything on the output shaft. This clip is at the end that
fits into the cup on the intermediate shaft.
Another possible reason for your problem is a cracked output shaft. I
had a cracked shaft and found another one (used) after searching the
internet. The discs for the roto-cam have to slide freely on the
output shafts 4 splines. If the shaft is cracked (usually at the
thinner slotted areas of the splines, it will expand slightly and
prevent the separator discs and pressure discs from moving.
Pull it apart and all this will be easily visible and you will see
how it all works.
I've rebuilt these a couple times and an important factor is getting
enough shims in to make sure that the pack (pressure plate-to-
pressure-plate) dimension varies by .050" when the pack roto-cam is
completely disengaged to when it is competely engaged.
When the clutch is disengaged (friction plates and separator discs
move freely) the dimension may be 1.25 inches. When you engage the
clutch (mashing the friction discs and separator plates together) the
distance should be 1.25 - .05 = 1.2 inches. If the pack compresses
less than this (so that the compressed distance is 1.22" for
example), there are too many shims in and the pack may stick and try
to drive the output shaft when disengaged. If the pack compresses
more than this (for example to 1.17") the pack is too loose and the
separator discs and friction discs may rotate within the pack when
driving a load. This will cause significant heating and eventually
roto-pac clutch failure. Measure carefully. There are an appropriate
number of shims provided with the kit. You should also keep the shims
from the old pack in case they are needed later.
I bought this repair kit from the H.B Duvall (Case/IH/Cub Cadet
dealer)in Frederick, MD last weekend for about $117.
Sorry this was so long, hope it helps.
Regards,
Barry
First of all, find out if you have a 154, 185, or 184. The 184s were
always red and have an electri PTO toggle switch on the dash, the 154
and 185 were white/yellow with a mechanical PTO lever to the left of
the seat. IF you really have a 154 or 185 you can read the treatise
on roto-cam, below. If you have a 184, someone else needs to respond
since I am not familiar with the electric PTO.
Roto-Cam PTO Clutch sticking or slipping....for 154 or 185 tractors...
You probably need to re-build the roto-cam PTO clutch at the back end
of the tractor. I just did this and your symptoms are consistent with
either too tight a disc pack, badly chewed up friction discs, or a
cracked PTO output shaft.
You can remove the PTO clutch easily to examine it by pulling any
pulley guard off the back of your tractor, remove the pulley and pull
off the larger panel held on by three bolts (one on each side and one
at the top behind the seat). Once that's off, you can easily see the
PTO clutch assembly. It fits into a "cup" that's at the end of the
intermediate PTO shaft. You can remove the actuating arm at this
point and remove the 3 - 3/4" bolts that hold the assembly to the
tractor. Depending on how the other part of the roto-cam actuating
disc is held in place (either by a pin or a loose bolt/nut - to allow
freedom of movement to prevent binding) you should be able to pull
the PTO assembly straight back out of the tractor.
Your Case/IH dealer or cub cadet dealer should be able to get you the
Roto-cam rebuild kit complete with (crappy) instructions. You would
be best to follow the instructions as much as possible after
carefully removing the parts by pulling off the spring clip that
holds everything on the output shaft. This clip is at the end that
fits into the cup on the intermediate shaft.
Another possible reason for your problem is a cracked output shaft. I
had a cracked shaft and found another one (used) after searching the
internet. The discs for the roto-cam have to slide freely on the
output shafts 4 splines. If the shaft is cracked (usually at the
thinner slotted areas of the splines, it will expand slightly and
prevent the separator discs and pressure discs from moving.
Pull it apart and all this will be easily visible and you will see
how it all works.
I've rebuilt these a couple times and an important factor is getting
enough shims in to make sure that the pack (pressure plate-to-
pressure-plate) dimension varies by .050" when the pack roto-cam is
completely disengaged to when it is competely engaged.
When the clutch is disengaged (friction plates and separator discs
move freely) the dimension may be 1.25 inches. When you engage the
clutch (mashing the friction discs and separator plates together) the
distance should be 1.25 - .05 = 1.2 inches. If the pack compresses
less than this (so that the compressed distance is 1.22" for
example), there are too many shims in and the pack may stick and try
to drive the output shaft when disengaged. If the pack compresses
more than this (for example to 1.17") the pack is too loose and the
separator discs and friction discs may rotate within the pack when
driving a load. This will cause significant heating and eventually
roto-pac clutch failure. Measure carefully. There are an appropriate
number of shims provided with the kit. You should also keep the shims
from the old pack in case they are needed later.
I bought this repair kit from the H.B Duvall (Case/IH/Cub Cadet
dealer)in Frederick, MD last weekend for about $117.
Sorry this was so long, hope it helps.
Regards,
Barry
Attachments
If the "Wavy Spring" is all that you need for a successful rebuild - It looks like they are still available from IH/Case. Messicks Tractor lists them as IH Part # 527246R1 for $3.14 each and says that you need a total of 8 of them. Supposedly it takes them 3 to 5 days to get from the Depot. They are item #26 on the attached diagram;
Hope this helps, NJDale
Hope this helps, NJDale
Attachments
Messicks Tractor makes selling over the internet one of their specialties they even post their prices and availability of the parts right on the internet.
Google "Messicks Tractor"; Go there; Click on the small Case/IH logo in the upper part of the screen; enter your model number - 154; click the blue '154 gas cub' selection; click 'Search'; Click 'Drive Train'; Click 'Drive Train Independent Power Take Off' ; Go to Item # 26 - Washer, Spring, Wave, 527246R1, 8 needed for job, $3.14 each, Avail in 3 - 5 Business Days.
Call them though - they are very nice people. They can then check the 'Main Depot' and give you an exact availability. They are located in SE PA, in the heart of one of the 'cub areas' and have many cub owners that they keep going with parts.
Hope that this helps you, NJDale
Google "Messicks Tractor"; Go there; Click on the small Case/IH logo in the upper part of the screen; enter your model number - 154; click the blue '154 gas cub' selection; click 'Search'; Click 'Drive Train'; Click 'Drive Train Independent Power Take Off' ; Go to Item # 26 - Washer, Spring, Wave, 527246R1, 8 needed for job, $3.14 each, Avail in 3 - 5 Business Days.
Call them though - they are very nice people. They can then check the 'Main Depot' and give you an exact availability. They are located in SE PA, in the heart of one of the 'cub areas' and have many cub owners that they keep going with parts.
Hope that this helps you, NJDale
I noticed at the bottom of the Messicks page that there is a "Kit - Disc Pack Repair" #527245R92.
When you Google this Number you get;
Messicks - $200.39
Bates - $259.21
Carter & Gruenwald - $203.50
B and S Enterprises, Elizabeth City, NC - might be an 'inexpensive' place to call.
Bates Lists the Kit contents (and has a very small picture of the Kit Contents);
4 Friction Discs
3 Separator Discs
1 Nut
1 Ring
12 Shims
4 Springs
See attached Picture;
When you Google this Number you get;
Messicks - $200.39
Bates - $259.21
Carter & Gruenwald - $203.50
B and S Enterprises, Elizabeth City, NC - might be an 'inexpensive' place to call.
Bates Lists the Kit contents (and has a very small picture of the Kit Contents);
4 Friction Discs
3 Separator Discs
1 Nut
1 Ring
12 Shims
4 Springs
See attached Picture;
Attachments
HAMILTONBOB
Active member
We sell 4 new 154/185 PTO clutch plates for $80.
Hamiltonbobcubs
Hamiltonbobcubs
Sure now you tell me, I just spent $200 for the kit... I had a lot of work cut out for me on this clutch. the short shaft had a crack in it, so i had to put it in my vise, weld it then use die cutting wheel to dress it clean. I am using a brass bushing inside the short shaft and on the long shaft instead of the set of pin bearings. Not sure how that will work out. seem to fit ok though. I also used emery clothe ribbon to clean the shaft really well where the cam and cam bearing will slide very freely. I think this is very important, this may be why people are getting PTO cluches buring up because they are not sliding appart freely and releasing the clutches completely thus overheating when not being used. Also if not shimmed just right it will wear out quicky.
This advise comes from years of experience as a mechanic, but not a tractor mechanic... so it is worth what you are paying for it.
This advise comes from years of experience as a mechanic, but not a tractor mechanic... so it is worth what you are paying for it.
Additionally I looked at the PTO clutch picture that is assemble on this website and i think it may be put together incorrectly. The cams are turned around backward. You want to be able to put the clutch pack as far into the clutch bell as possible, so make sure the clutch cam ingauging arms are facing in such a way as will allow that.
My 154 LoBoy was mowing fine, when the pto clutch suddenly disengaged, pulling the lever down into the disengaged position. When I tried to re-engage it, it engaged for a few seconds, then violently disengaged again, taking the knob right out of my hand. I subsequently installed a new clutch pack, but when I tried to engage the pto clutch, it did the same thing it did before, taking the lever right out of my hand. It seems to snap firmly in place when I engage it, it just won't stay that way. It does this with or without the drive pulley and belt for the mower in place. I need to mow! Does anyone have any idea what I'm not seeing here?