New to me 140

Farmall Super A, AV, 100, 130, & 140 1939 - 1973

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lolbell
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:24 am
Zip Code: 35555
Tractors Owned: 1976 140
1964 140
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: New to me 140

Postby lolbell » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:59 pm

Every thing in neutral ring/pinion still tight. Depressed clutch, main gear cluster spins freely, ring/pinion still tight

SamsFarm
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Re: New to me 140

Postby SamsFarm » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:41 pm

Will the tractor start and run with the clutch out (engaged) and the transmission in neutral?
1968 Cub fast hitch

Jim Becker
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Re: New to me 140

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:49 pm

Based on what you have already said, I believe your answer to SamsFarm's most recent question will be "yes". The rest of my comment is based on that assumption.

At this point, you have definitely verified that everything other than the ring and pinion can turn. Either the pinion is keeping the ring from turning or the ring is keeping the pinion from turning. The pinion is integral with the lower shaft of the transmission. The only ways I can imagine that the lower shaft is blocked are:
1) Foreign object jammed between a gear and the transmission case. That you should have been able to see through the top opening, so not it.
2) The shaft is supported by a roller bearing (rear) and a ball bearing (front). One of them could have failed and jammed with the damaged/loose pieces.

For the ring to be blocked, keeping the pinion from turning, you have the same possibilities:
1) You should have been able to see anything jammed between the ring gear in the case, so not it.
2) The differential carrier is supported by a ball bearing on each side. A failed, jammed bearing may be the problem.

Unfortunately, you are about at the end of relatively easy diagnosis. Accessing the front transmission bearing requires a split in front of the transmission. Each differential carrier bearing is accessed from the side, requiring removal of the final drive, and the differential shaft housing for the right. The rear transmission bearing is about the last part that can be removed. So all the above has to be done to remove it.

If you can detect even a little movement of either the ring or pinion (range of motion only the backlash in the gears) it will clue you in to start with one area or the other. Otherwise, you just have to tear into it.

Maybe someone else will have another suggestion I'm not thinking of. BUt I think we have covered everything.

lolbell
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:24 am
Zip Code: 35555
Tractors Owned: 1976 140
1964 140
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: New to me 140

Postby lolbell » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:06 pm

Answering Sam’s question- yes. It’s definitely in the carrier or pinion. As tight as both are it seems as though something is wedged in the gears but I don’t see anything obvious. I would think if it is a bearing on one or the other would move some. I don’t know what the lash is set but a few thousands. So one should move some.

Jim Becker
Team Cub
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Posts: 15860
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 2:59 pm
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Re: New to me 140

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Apr 18, 2021 2:16 pm

Often when a bearing jams it can be unjammed by reversing direction. Of course, when moved the original direction it will often jam again fairly quickly. If you can unjam it, you may be able to detect looseness in the failed bearing. As I understand, you were backing up when it jammed. You may be able to get some type of pry on the differential carrier and break it loose by attempting to rotate forward (which requires the back part of the carreir to rotate down).

lolbell
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:24 am
Zip Code: 35555
Tractors Owned: 1976 140
1964 140
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: New to me 140

Postby lolbell » Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:04 pm

Mr Becker, I haven’t thanked you guys yet for all of help you’ve given me. I appreciate it more than you can imagine. I’ve got a friend that is going to have some spare time next week that is coming to help. He’s a very good mechanic that has experience splitting tractors, but not Farmalls. Mostly Fords and John Deeres. I found a shop manual at Tractor Supply so maybe with his help we can do the repairs. Before I go any further I think I’ll let him get involved. A lot of the time I tear up more when I don’t know what I am doing. Thanks to you guys I have it narrowed down to where to start when he can get here to help. I was hoping to get it freed up and get it to his shop, but don’t think that’s going to happen.

SamsFarm
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 838
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:21 pm
Zip Code: 44410
Tractors Owned: 1968 Cub Fast Hitch
LF-1 Platform Carrier
144 Cultivators
L-F194 Plow(s)
F38 Disk
L-F3 Spring Tooth Harrow
Fast Hitch CS Bell 60 Grain Mill
Home Made Fast Hitch Potato Plow
54A Blade

Couple 1948 Cubs
172 Runner Planter
53 Fertilizer
Cub-3 Field Cultivator
Cub-189 Two Way Plow
Cub-22 Sickle Bar Mower
Mechanical Transplanter with side mount barrel (needs a fast hitch adapter) :)

Misc Belly Mowers

Wish List
International 100 Fast Hitch Blade
Mott Fast Hitch Flail Mower

Wish Wish Wish List
Fast Hitch Rotary Hoe
4E hammer mill
Location: Ne Ohio

Re: New to me 140

Postby SamsFarm » Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:25 pm

I can not wait till you get to the bottom of this, I sure hope you post your findings once fixed! A few pics would be nice too!

Good luck!
1968 Cub fast hitch

lolbell
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:24 am
Zip Code: 35555
Tractors Owned: 1976 140
1964 140
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: New to me 140

Postby lolbell » Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:17 pm

I’ll let you know what we find Mr Sam. I’ll try to take a few pictures

lolbell
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:24 am
Zip Code: 35555
Tractors Owned: 1976 140
1964 140
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: New to me 140

Postby lolbell » Sat Apr 24, 2021 7:29 pm

Is there a specialty tool to pull the bearing cap off of the transmission housing that holds the carrier bearing in place? Of the pullers I have none have been any help so far. I was able to get the right side off but am not having any luck with the other side. Or maybe a trick I’m not aware of. I’m at a stand still right now and I still don’t see what has it locked up. It wasn’t the right side carrier bearing

lolbell
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:24 am
Zip Code: 35555
Tractors Owned: 1976 140
1964 140
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: New to me 140

Postby lolbell » Sun Apr 25, 2021 3:04 pm

Okay. I’m buffaloed. Bought a puller and got the left side bearing retainer off. Pulled the carrier out and everything is freed up. I found one chipped tooth on the ring gear. VERY small. Smaller than a match head. No other metal in housing. All other gears look as new. Don’t know where to go from here. I guess I’ll put new bearings and seals in the rear end and put it back together. Had a friend here helping who is very good with rear ends and transmissions that advised that. He saw nothings to cause the problem unless the small chip out of the ring gear was wedge in the pinion/ring gear.

lolbell
Posts: 18
Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:24 am
Zip Code: 35555
Tractors Owned: 1976 140
1964 140
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: New to me 140

Postby lolbell » Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:58 pm

Alright, I got to the bottom of this. The retaining cap screw was loose allowing the pinion shaft to move back in the housing. The taper of the pinion gear caused the binding. When I tightened the cap screw everything works as it should. My plans are to steam clean the transmission assembly and put blue lock tight on the cap screw and reassemble. I replaced the bearings and seals on the carrier already. I don’t think I will replace anything in the transmission unless you think something was wrong to cause the screw to back out.


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