Because twins: twice the trouble with two super AVs

[R.D.Owens]

Folks here have been real helpful in response to the questions I've posted so I thought it was time to introduce myself and explain the trouble I'm in. It's all my fault. Well, maybe its a little bit the fault of my twin boys but I should know better.

My wife and I have twin boys, 11 years old. We live in the Hudson Valley in New York and decided to start a garden last year. One day last summer I saw a listing for a Farmall A on Craigslist. It was close by and I thought it would be fun to take my boys to see it. My Grandfather had a cub on his farm oh-so-many years ago. We didn't really need it for our new garden but I thought it would be a fun afternoon for the boys to go take a look at it.

Well, like I said. I should've known better. They fell in love with the tractor, and the chance of learning to drive a stick shift, instantly.

The tractor ran great. Pulled strong. Stopped quick. Had reasonably tight steering and full cultivators that would actually be useful for our garden. On top of all this, the price was right and the fellow that had it for sale was a real gentleman.

So did I buy it? Of course not. That would have been too easy. Truth be told, I was worried about the boys being too young to manage learning a clutch while working the lift arms to engage the cultivators. I decided that we needed a SUPER A with fancy modern hydraulics. Should be easy to find one for a decent a price right? Well, not around here. At least not last year...

[R.D.Owens]

After passing on that A, I looked high and low in NY and all the neighboring states for a Super A. I wasn't picky either. I would have settled for a 130 or 140. I drove to look at everyone for sale within 100 miles and they were either not running or stupid expensive show pieces. I even bid on a couple at auction in PA and NJ but they also sold for crazy money. Admitted fool that I am, even I wouldn't bid $5000 for 40+ year old tractor I couldn't test drive. Even called about a few for sale in NC (which seems to be the promised land for 140s). The boys joined in the search, went along on every field trip to look at one for sale, combed through online auction sites, and grew increasingly desperate that we wouldn't find one.

I had all but given up when I stumbled on another local Craigslist ad right before Christmas. A Christmas tree farmer (yes, a real Christmas tree farmer and a heck of a nice guy it turned out) 20 miles away had a listing for not one, but TWO Super AV's. One of them had three wheels with bad tires (meaning one wheel rim was totally missing). The other had decent wheels and rubber but looked fairly rough. Plus, between the two of them, there were enough bits and pieces to assemble a decent cultivator set up. The farmer said he had bought them to restore, but had never gotten around to it. (He had a whole fleet of beautiful old John Deere's that must have taken all his free time and attention). He said he had never run or worked either of them but the engines in both tractors were free.

Having taken a pass on a perfectly fine and well running A, would a fellow in his right mind buy two potential basket cases in unknown condition for the same money? Of course not. But then, there is the twin factor. One Farmall = endless fights over who's turn it is to drive. Two Farmalls = Two smiling boys. What father could say no. Especially right before Christmas.

Now you know the trouble I'm in.

[R.D.Owens]

It took a while to source a new front rim for an AV and enough new rubber to move both tractors from the tree farmer's barn to mine, but they arrived on a snowy day in early February.

After we got them safely moved into the barn it was time to name them. Given the era when these tractors were built, and in a hopeful spirit that the fool democrats and fool republicans in Washington will try to work together for the benefit of the whole country, we named them Truman and Dewey. Here they are in all their faded, hard working glory. Truman is on the left and Dewey is on the right (of course).

[R.D.Owens]

Here's another shot of Truman. If I've read the serial number right, he was built in 1951. Had a decent quality repaint at some point in the past. Still positive ground and 6v electrics and a fairly complete (if cobbled) cultivator set up. Two new wheels and three new tires. Engine turns over by hand. Starter motor is kaput. The right rear brake sorta worked when we rolled it off the truck. The left rear brake pedal and shaft wobble so much in the bracket there's no way to know if the brakes on that side work.

And here are a few more pictures of Dewey. Much rougher exterior. I don't think Dewey has seen a paint can since he rolled out of the factory in 1950. He was, at some point in his long life, changed to negative ground and 12 volts. Note the serviceable tires and a Frankenstein seat contraption (it's welded to gate hinges that are bolted to seat frame). If you look closely, you can see that someone decided that Dewey's rear fenders were just the perfect place to try to learn how to use a plasma cutter. Zero braking. I mean none. Dewey takes first place in this pair for most tired, weepy and hacked-up.

So what's the plan? Well, I hope to get one of them running and usable by late May, in time to be useful in the garden. Then, next winter, get the other one running. Will I be able to do this? Well, I've got two eager helpers, a heated barn to work in, and most of the tools I think I'll need. I've collected and read all the manuals I can get my hands on, but its still fair to say that what I know about Farmalls would, at most, fill two very small thimbles. I've learned a lot just reading old posts here. And I've marveled at the skill and craftsmanship of some of the work I've seen – like the work Stanton did on his Super AV. I'm hoping yall will take pity on me for the trouble I've made for myself, forgive my ignorant questions, and guide me to the light of knowledge!

Thanks,

Richard

[Nelson 634]

This thread was well worth staying up past my bedtime catching up on my reading. Your picture of your twins with smiles big as all outdoors. Is priceless. Good luck with your projects with your boys. I'm sure you'll receive all the help you'll need. Welcome to the form. Enjoy your boys and your tractors. I can't wait to follow along. I have a Farmall 100 which is similar in size to your tractors as well as several Cubs. You and your boys can learn a lot .

[Super A]

Great success........I have ended up with 2 SAVs as well in the last 10 months. A sort-of runner showed up here in May, then I drug home a non-runner after Christmas because it had cultivators. I am probably going to keep the non-runner and sell the other one.

Al

[Stanton]

What a story! Thanks for giving us such a background and PICTURES! The twins are great--and I bet very excited. You'll do fine. Research all you can and ask questions.

I'm flattered you mentioned me, but to set the record straight, mine is an AV, not SAV. Wished it had hydraulics, but it doesn't.

Best of success with yours and if I were you, I'd be keeping an eye on info related to the NE CubFest held in Oxford, NY (about 3 hour drive from you). That would be a great place to meet other tractor lovers and get some answers first-hand.

Keep watching for any info from Cecil about the NE CubFest here:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=8
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=109089

[tst]

Richard congrads on the both pair, I can probably help you with some parts if needed as I have a parts tractor, and I live just down the road from you
Tim

[Don McCombs]

PM sent.

[R.D.Owens]

Thanks for all the warm words of welcome and encouragement. If they have the Cubfest in Oxford this year, we will definitely make the trip! And, Tim, I would love to stop by some time to see your collection and get some first-hand advice.

I'll share one more update to catch folks up to where we are now before I start pestering everyone for advice.

We’ve had Truman and Dewey in the barn for just over six weeks now and we’ve made a fair bit of progress. The initial plan of attack was new batteries and refurbished wiring as necessary to turn each of their engines over with the starters -- after putting a bit of oil in each cylinder and cranking them over by hand a bit to get some lubrication back in the cylinders. We could then do compression and leak down tests. Whichever engine seemed the strongest would then determine which tractor we started on first.

Dewey was easy. A new battery and a good cleaning on the starter terminals was all he needed to crank over. Indeed, the hardest part was removing all the linkages to get the old battery out.

However, Truman wasn’t the least bit cooperative. We cleaned the starter switch terminals -- no go. Removed the switch and held a battery clamp directly on the copper button on top of the starter. Still no go. I guess Truman was telling us that he wouldn’t do nothing until we got him a new or rebuilt starter motor.

So, while a rebuilt starter motor was on order for Truman, we started messing with Dewey. With a new battery and an ignition tune up (new plugs, wires, distributor cap, rotor and a simple cleaning of the points and all other wire connections) we were quickly rewarded with bright spark on all four cylinders! Dewey was proving that you can’t judge a book by its cover, or an old tractor by its paint (or lack thereof). We decided to concentrate all our efforts now on Dewey since he seemed eager to go.

Next up, Dewey’s fuel system. This was undoubtedly going to be a bit more work than the ignition. On the plus side, while the gas tank was rusty and crusty on the outside, the inside looked good as new. No rust and no old fuel residue. Someone had done the right thing and completely drained the tank.

The carb, however had not received the same care. I had hoped it might be rebuildable. It’s an old Carter UT with the cast iron air horn. A thorough cleaning revealed massive pitting and two small holes in the fuel bowl. Not good. I suppose I could have tried to patch the holes with JB Weld or some such magic. We bit the bullet and ordered a new, American made Zenith to replace this tired old Carter.

Richard

[R.D.Owens]

While we were waiting for the new carb to be delivered, the boys undertook the tedious work of cleaning, scraping, sanding, priming and painting. I’ve learned that effective twin management requires the assignment of similar -- but separate – tasks. Buck tackled the air cleaner while Hank wrestled with the fuel tank and oil pan. Please understand that, consistent with our skills, our goal for now is a safe, working tractor not a show piece. We aim to stop further rusting. We’re talking Rustoleum spray paint, runs and all. Pretty will have to wait. Even so, I think the boys did a nice job.

Before:

After:

When we took the oil pan off to clean it, we found plenty of sludge but no metal. We did find the tiniest bit of anti-freeze. Not a good sign but, for now, I’m not going to worry about it.

Richard

[R.D.Owens]

March 6 was the big day. We put the gas tank back on, plumbed it to the carb, put two gallons in the gas tank, filled the engine with oil and crossed our fingers. … WOW. Dewey roared back to life right away on the second pull of the starter switch. Well, I have to admit it was the second pull of the starter AFTER I remembered to open the valve on the sediment bowl. That was embarassing. We were jumping up and down, giving each other high-fives, hootin’ and hollerin’ for joy. We didn’t run it for long since we were in the barn on a real cold day with the doors closed. But we couldn’t have been happier. Hank made a short video but we were too excited to pause and take pictures.

We had a freakishly warm day a few days later. So we opened the barn doors and ran the engine for a bit. The engine idled strong, showed good oil pressure (I had put on a new gauge) and responded well to the throttle/governor. Throwing caution to the wind, the boys encouraged me to try to drive it. I knew Dewey had no brakes and it seemed like a bad idea. But they insisted that I at least try to put it in gear to see if the clutch was stuck. So I gave it a little throttle, pushed in the clutch and said a brief prayer before urging the shifter into second. Lo and behold, no grinding! I gently let the clutch out and Dewey inched forward. I didn’t dare try to drive out of the barn. Two feet of forward motion was more than enough. I pushed the clutch back in and Dewey rolled to a stop well as I fretted about rolling out of the barn and down the hill!

The functioning clutch was a real and very pleasant surprise. We had pulled the front clutch cover off to remove the oil pan and discovered that untold generations of mice had made that bellhousing their home. Buck spent the better part of a day cleaning out the bellhousing. It was such a dirty job he declared he had earned the right to be first to drive Dewey before his brother. I ducked the inevitable dispute by suggesting that their mother would decide once all the work was done.

And now yall are pretty much all caught up to where we are, namely pulling the left side final drive to start on the brakes, seals, etc. I’ll let you know what we find. We’re supposed to get warmer weather this weekend so maybe we can make some good progress.

Richard

[R.D.Owens]

Oh, I almost forgot. Does anyone know the factory specification here? I've looked through all the manuals and searched online and can't find the specs. It seems to me that this gap may not be set correctly. Could that be contributing the poor braking response on the left hand side?

Richard

[Dale Finch]

I may be wrong, but it sure looks like the piece ("lever") attach to the brake rod has popped loose from the brake shaft, part #12 below:
http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Super%20A%20-%20Super%20AV/TC-39B%20Parts%20Catalog/Page%20176.jpg

[R.D.Owens]

Dale,

You are, of course, right. I was trying to make a little joke about the gap setting! I can't for the life of me figure out how they came apart. I guess I will have to fire up the welder or find a replacement.

With warm weather today, we started working on the final drive and the brakes. From the looks of the brake band and the housing, it seems like we need to replace some seals in the final drive and the differential case. It was so greasy inside that I'm not sure the brakes would have done any good even if the brake shaft and actuating lever had not separated.

We got the brake drum removed and the housing mostly clean. Boy was there a lot of old oil, dirt and grease.

But now I'm stuck. Can anyone explain what the procedure is from here on to replace the seals? Do I need to remove this piece, which I think holds the bearing for the differential? Or can I remove the seal from the outside?

Also, do I need to remove the shaft that the brake drum rides on? If so, how do I get it out? Am I going to need a press or can I just gently tap it out?

All advice is appreciated. Thanks again.

Richard