47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

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AHS
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47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby AHS » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:27 am

Ok, there are two pieces to the front steering; the top half and the bottom half… that’s where it leaks. A gasket maybe? It’s by far wet down by the pitman arm, I’m not sure if there is a seal there? And my steering, both doglegs that go down to the wheels have been welded on top. The doglegs point slightly to the rear of the machine. In my mind, that’s not right! The doglegs should point straight down?
EB2341F4-83C1-409A-9E63-B8B788C28176.jpeg

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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby Gary Dotson » Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:57 am

Yes, there is a seal for the Pittman shaft, they very often leak there. And yes the spindle uprights should be straight to slightly forward, creating positive caster.

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Glen
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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby Glen » Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:45 pm

Hi,
Yes, there is originally a gasket between the upper and lower castings of the steering gear.
The bolts holding the halves together could be loose, then oil can leak out the gasket.

Below is a pic from TM Tractor of the steering gear base. It is held on with 5 bolts in a circle.
There is an oil seal at the bottom of the steering gear, on the shaft, it can leak.
The oil seal is in the shiny area in the pic.

The bolts can come loose from use, and the bolt threads in the upper housing get worn from using the Cub with the bolts loose.
People on here have had to repair the threads, or replace the housings because of worn threads.

After checking the bolts, I would look at the vent in the steering gear oil filler plug.
That is the top plug on the steering gear.
If the vent is plugged, the steering gear can build up enough pressure in it to push oil out the oil seal.

Below is a post from yesterday with info I posted on it, about cleaning the vent.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113209

After cleaning the vent hole, you could clean off the oil from the axle, fill it to the level plug hole, and leave it a few days and see if it stops leaking.

The bottom oil seal could be worn out and need replacing.

The spindle shafts on Cubs should slope ahead at the bottom, not back.
It affects the driving of the Cub, it could be why the steering wheel is hard to turn.

Below is a page from the 1947 Cub owner's manual, it is a cutaway pic of the Cub, showing the front axle, and the slope ahead at the bottom of the front spindles.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-22.jpg

It's possible someone has had the front axle off of it before, and put it on backwards. I have seen it happen on here before.
Look for the grease fitting for the front axle pivot, it is originally on the right side, at the rear area of the pivot, pointing down.
If the fitting is not there, and is on the left side, the axle is backwards.
The tube welded on the axle for the pivot pin to go in, is different lengths on the front and rear of the axle. The longer part of the tube should be to the rear.

Below are pics. The 1st and 2nd pics are from TM Tractor.
The 1st pic shows the bottom of the steering gear, and the 5 bolts in a circle. The oil seal is in the shiny area.
The 2nd pic shows the front axle, and the difference in length of the tube in front and back of the axle.
The 3rd pic shows the grease fitting under the center of the Cub front axle.
The 4th pic shows how the axle tube should be centered under the curved stop made in the steering gear housing. If it is to the rear some of the stop, the axle is probably in backwards.

I guess the Cub has a front blade on it, if you need to remove the front axle, I would remove the blade first.

The next post from me tells how to replace the oil seal, and rebuild the steering gear, if needed. :)
Attachments
Cub steering base 3.jpg
Cub axle 8.jpg
Cub axle a.jpg
Cub axle b .jpg

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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby Dale Finch » Sun Jun 05, 2022 9:58 pm

The other way your spindles could get angled rearward is if the axle clamp bolts get loose allowing the inner tube to rotate a bit inside the outer tube. This can also cause the pin to wear & even wallow out the hole.

This is the part I am referring to:
s-l400 (1).jpg
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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby Glen » Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:34 pm

Here is info for the steering gear.

Some of this might be repeated from above.

You have to jack up the front of the Cub, remove the front axle, at the center pivot, and remove the steering gear base to get into the steering gear.
I would remove the upper, long steering shaft first.
The gear on the shaft screws out of mesh with the larger gear.

Worn bushings in the steering gear make more free play in the steering wheel's movement.
You didn't say how much free play the steering wheel has, turning right to left.
It can be measured at the outer edge of the steering wheel with a tape.

There is an oil seal at the lower end of the upper steering shaft, and a seal at the bottom of the steering gear.
TM Tractor has new bushings, and oil seals for it.

I would read the steering section in the Cub and LoBoy service manual before taking the front end apart.
The manual has lots of info. It has pics of inside the steering gear.
Below is the manual.
There is a table of contents beginning on page 1 of most sections, it makes it easier to use online.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

Below are pages from the Cub and LoBoy parts manual.

There are bushings for the vertical shaft, they are numbers 14 and 18.
The lower oil seal is number 22.
There are thick washers at the gear on the upper shaft, numbers 6 and 7, they might need replacing if worn.
Washer 7 can fall off the end of the upper shaft when removing it from the steering gear.
When putting the upper shaft in the steering gear, be careful washer 7 doesn't fall off the end of the shaft.
Turn the shaft to remove it, or put it in again.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 005-02.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 005-03.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 005-04.jpg

You have to remove the steering wheel to replace the upper washer, or the upper oil seal.
The steering wheel can be tight, and need a puller to remove.

You can turn the large gear 1/2 turn on the splines and it will use teeth that a unused.
Look closely at the gear teeth and see if someone turned it around before, or if the teeth are unused.

When the steering gear is apart, you can look in with a light and see if the inside of the expansion plug is rusted. If it looks good, it doesn't need replacing.

Below is TM Tractor's page of steering parts, you can look at the pics.
The washers for the upper shaft are in the 2nd row.
The bushings for the vertical shaft are in the 9th row.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/st/st_001newparts.htm

After the steering gear is together, the nut holding the arm on the bottom of the shaft needs adjusting.
Don't tighten the nut too tight, it will make the gear bind.
The bolt through the arm has to be loose, so the arm will move on the shaft.
When adjusting it, I jack up the front of the Cub, so the front wheels are just off the ground, then the steering wheel will turn freely from side to side.
Tighten the nut until the play is gone, but not so tight that the steering binds.
The nut and shaft only have a few positions where the cotter key will go through, so you may not be able to remove all up and down movement of the shaft, to put the key in.
Tighten the bolt and nut through the arm when done adjusting the nut.

The steering gear base is held on with 5 bolts in a circle.
The bolts can come loose from use, and the bolt threads in the upper housing get worn from using the Cub with the bolts loose.
People on here have had to repair the threads, or replace the housings because of worn threads. :)

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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby AHS » Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:16 am

Wow! The Cubs are so intricate! I was wondering if my axle was installed backwards. So I took a few photos. The grease fitting is in the right place on both front axles. The axles look like their in backwards. I don’t know how to tell if it in backwards…
Attachments
F75856A2-7EC4-48E2-80A7-22B3155403D9.jpeg
1B6C2FAE-228B-4366-B3F7-4336BAABA2A2.jpeg

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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby Don McCombs » Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:24 am

Read this thread…

viewtopic.php?t=113227
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AHS
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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby AHS » Wed Jun 08, 2022 4:37 pm

Maybe I need to loosen up my axle extensions and put it in reverse, and tilt them forward. The axle extensions are the same left to right? I have an extra axle extension and the 2nd hole is wallowed out ( I know a welder). I will also rebuild my wheel bearing and seals. :D
Attachments
89EAB7CE-2D31-400C-AAA9-A78F83045457.jpeg

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Glen
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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby Glen » Wed Jun 08, 2022 7:05 pm

Hi,
The Cub front axle has to be installed, or assembled right so the Cub drives and handles right.

I would jack up the front of the Cub so the wheels are slightly off the ground, and if the axle extensions are moveable in the axle tube, you can loosen the clamp, and push the wheel and bottom of the spindle ahead to the right position.

I couldn't tell from what you wrote if you meant the grease fitting on the center pivot is in the right place, there is 1 fitting.
The grease fitting on the center pivot isn't the most sure way to tell if the center part of the axle is installed right, if the center tube in in backwards, someone could have drilled and installed a fitting with the center tube installed backwards.

First make sure the center tube is installed right. The longer part of the tube for the pivot pin has to be to the rear, that is shown in my 1st post above, in the 2nd pic.
Also sight in from above the right front wheel along the top of the axle and see if the axle is directly under the curved stop made in the steering gear casting. That is shown in my 4th pic above.
Use a light if you need to.
Then you know if the center part of the axle is installed right.

If it is installed right, then it may just have problems with the clamps being loose, and someone kept using the Cub and wore the adjustment holes and pins, so the spindles lean back instead of ahead.
The pin is not meant to take all the force of using the Cub with the clamps loose, the clamps have to be tight.

I don't know if 1 or both axle extension spindle tubes have been rewelded on your Cub.
I think the 1 in your pic above has more weld than original, but it's hard to see in a pic.
I would look at the extensions, and be sure the tubes going down to the wheel are welded on in the right position.
Below are pics from TM Tractor showing the extension.
Pics 4, 5, and 6 show the angle.
If someone welded them on wrong, then that could be a problem.
They are probably right because of the shaft in them, and the bushing at the top area of the shaft, but I'm not there to see them. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gst ... xt_001.htm

AHS
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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby AHS » Tue Jun 14, 2022 6:07 pm

There! I switched the axle extensions and spindles; and wha la!! The spindles are pointed slightly forward! I haven’t got the tire toed in yet Now I just have the steering leak to take care of!
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194A03ED-7A6F-4C7A-A93E-99F69A6009BD.jpeg

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Glen
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Re: 47 Cub steering leak and hard steering

Postby Glen » Tue Jun 14, 2022 7:14 pm

Hi,
Good that you made some progress with the Cub.

I don't see why changing sides with the extensions would make any difference with the angle, the Cub parts manual says both extensions are the same part number.

Below is a page from the 1947 Cub owner's manual telling about adjusting the front wheel width, and setting the toe in.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-46.jpg

Usually the balls on the outer arms, where D is in the pic, wear more in the straight ahead position.
If you tighten the adjustment that screws in the end of the tie rod, so it is snug when straight ahead, it may be too tight when you turn the steering wheel to the right or left.
I jack the front up so the front wheels are just off the ground, so I can turn the steering wheel freely from side to side, and see if the wheel turns freely.
They may need to be slightly loose in the straight ahead position, so it will turn freely to the full left and right positions.
The tires should have the weight of the Cub on them to adjust the toe in, don't jack it up when setting the toe in. :)


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