1952 Cub arrives in new home.

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Workinprogress
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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Workinprogress » Sun Mar 20, 2022 2:44 pm

The fun never ends! Took a few minutes and removed the drive shaft seal. Someone has been in here and not sure they knew what they were doing. First no gasket, old retainer had small parts of old gasket, and a little bit of form a gasket. Not to mention spring in seal was broken. So it was in need of a replacement.

7A6E358B-1AEF-4F0C-A5BB-8A377970439D.jpeg


Shaft seemed to turn smoothly but than I noticed inner part of bearing was not spinning. Shaft spinning inside bearing. Was able to work it and got inner part of bearing spinning but doesn’t feel smooth. Looks like I am going into the transmission.

Also noticed the shaft is slightly bent (1/4”-3/8”) at the pilot bushing end. Before I disassemble the transmission I will try to straighten the shaft as mentioned in another post. Support shaft near transmission and push gently down on it.
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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Jim Becker » Sun Mar 20, 2022 3:21 pm

The apparent runout of the shaft may be from the bad bearing. I would change the bearing (and verify that the shaft isn't worn where the bearing rests) before doing anything about a bend in the shaft. By the way, only 1/4 inch or so sounds pretty good.

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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Workinprogress » Mon Mar 21, 2022 9:57 pm

Pulled the driveshaft today. Definitely the front bearing bad. The bearing inner raceway is not tight on the shaft. I can push the bearing back and forth about 1/8” between the start of the splines and the retainer clip (third image). When removing the bearing from the shaft it becomes tight to the driveshaft just as it passes the slot for the retainer clip. If I continue to work the bearing slowly with a brass punch I can work it off the drive shaft.
I figured it should be this tight all the way?

Here is a photo of the pto end of the driveshaft.
04F837ED-7497-434E-AB6F-793B20796214.jpeg


The area the bearing rides and the area in front of the retainer clip slot don’t seem to measure very different. On the driveshaft I get 0.984 where the bearing rides and 0.986 or maybe 0.985 in front of the retainer clip slot.
7F1764D4-B06F-4C8B-B8C2-2D386B6B0474.jpeg
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AF773A1E-ED26-4FC9-AFB7-90AA9C8087E2.jpeg
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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:40 pm

I wouldn't be comfortable with the wear you are seeing at the bearing. Rather than spring for a new shaft, I'd consider using some Loctite retaining compound. (This assumes you can get a small container of the stuff for a reasonable price.)

This isn't a US web site, but:
https://www.tryloctite.in/challenge-are ... f-gearbox/

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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Don McCombs » Tue Mar 22, 2022 6:42 am

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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Gary Dotson » Tue Mar 22, 2022 7:20 am

The bearing inner race must always spin with the shaft, if not, you’ll have issues in the future. Yes, it should have been an interference fit the entire distance. The Loctite stud and bearing mount should work, assuming the rest of the shaft is in good condition. Another option, a machine shop should be able to knurl the area where the bearing rides. I’ve done that successfully on other applications.

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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby 69ranger » Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:07 am

Plus one on the Knurling, to increase the size. I have done this successfully on an under sized shaft. Knurling, a surface slightly will increase the shaft size a bit, and give loctite glue, a surface to grab on to.
My buddy did this for me on a transmission shaft, on an old two cylinder John Deere. Since it was not going to the field everyday, and was going to be on light duty, it was not a concern to me. If I was going to use it every day, then I would have made different arrangements, and you probably should consider doing the same.
Lots of luck.

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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Glen » Tue Mar 22, 2022 5:50 pm

Hi,
Usually the ball bearing needs pressing on or off the shaft, they are supposed to be tight on the shaft.

The spline at the rear of the shaft, for the PTO, looks like it has some wear.
It's hard to see exactly how much wear there is in a picture.
When they get to a certain amount of wear, the PTO won't stay engaged.

If you are going to use the PTO, a new shaft would be a good thing to put in, and a new PTO Clutch, which has the spline inside it.

Below is a listing at TM Tractor for a new PTO Clutch.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/449fp.htm

If you use the same shaft, check the PTO Pilot Bushing, in the rear of the shaft, it needs replacing if it's worn.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/752fp.htm

Below is their page of PTO parts, you can look at the pics.
The bottom 2 rows are parts for the Belt Pulley Attachment, disregard those parts if you're not repairing a Belt Pulley.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/pt_001newparts.htm

Below are their transmission parts.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/tr_001newparts.htm

Some of the clutch shaft ball bearings have a shield on 1 side of them, and are open on the other side.
Case IH used to sell them. I don't know if they do today. The dealer told me the side with the shield goes to the rear.

Clean out the oil trough, at the upper area of the trans, under the shifter cover, and the oil holes that go down to the front and rear bearing, so the bearings can get oil.

Below is a pic from TM Tractor of the rear of the clutch shaft, you can see the spline and the PTO pilot bushing. :)
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Cub trans shaft 7.jpg
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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Workinprogress » Tue Mar 22, 2022 8:24 pm

Here are a few more photos.

Yes the pto end of the drive shaft has some wear. I had to look closely at the end of the shaft to actually see the pto shaft bushing. It is paper thin and the pto shaft is very loose.

CCD8C98F-A68A-45D1-9AF4-6D65B90F2B2F.jpeg


The splines of the pto shaft seem good.

DD3490D0-2049-4EC3-A959-703B67B6FA59.jpeg


It also seems like little to no wear on the pto clutch.

788552F6-086D-40CC-AAC2-E84FC4B4A583.jpeg
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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Dale Finch » Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:36 pm

While you have it apart (and you may already have planned this), you should go ahead and replace the PTO seal in the retainer (on rear of tractor). It will give you a chance to check whether you have the older "staked-bearing" style PTO shaft, or the newer "retainer style" shaft.

This is from one of my PTO rebuilds:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100075

On the older shafts, it is common for the stakings to wear down, allowing the bearing to move on the shaft. This, in turn, can let the shaft move rearward enough to uncouple the PTO shaft from the main drive shaft, and making the PTO assembly fail to stay engaged or grind. Sometimes, you can re-stake the shaft... I've had 50/50 success!

The other part to check is the PTO shifter pin condition. It should be a nice round cylinder. If it has a flat side, this too can allow the two shafts to uncouple or grind.
http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/317fp.htm

TM Tractors has new ones, or you can drill the flattened pin out and weld in a short cut off section of a drill bit.
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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Workinprogress » Wed Mar 23, 2022 6:29 pm

Dale, thanks for the links. I already purchased the transmission seal/gasket kit from TM Tractor. I am planning on going through the pto and your instructions are great.
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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Workinprogress » Sun Mar 27, 2022 7:17 am

Replacement parts ordered. Should be in early next week. Also today is my last maple sap boil for the season so the cub work will be back on top!

The reverse idler gear seems to turn freely and doesn’t appear to have any play but I haven’t removed it. Do I need to remove it to evaluate or can it be evaluated in the transmission?
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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Glen » Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:50 pm

Hi,
If the reverse idler seems to turn good, and have no play that you can feel, it is probably ok.

It's possible the shaft or bushing have roughness, or lines of wear on them, from turning.

You could take it out and look if you want to.

The front of the PTO shaft could probably use smoothing with some 400 grit sandpaper, it looks slightly rough in your pic, but it could be the pic making it look that way.
It should be smooth to use it in a new bushing, if you are replacing the PTO pilot bushing. :)

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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Workinprogress » Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:52 am

Parts arrived and will assembly this weekend. This includes rejoining the tractor halves.
New Aftermarket drive shaft
Transmission seals
Transmission front bearing (ih case).

So a couple quick question.
1) transmission front bearing has shield/cover on one side. That shield should face the transmission?
2) do I need to put oil or gear oil onto the drive shift before sliding transmission gears on or just leave it dry?
3) when rejoining the tractor the driveshaft/pilot bushing end get a little grease but the splines on the clutch friction plate stay dry?

Any other suggestions?
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Kubota B8200HST-D
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Re: 1952 Cub arrives in new home.

Postby Gary Dotson » Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:28 am

Yes, shield toward gears. Yes, oil the shaft, any lube will do. Grease pilot bushing and a very light film of grease on the splines, just enough to make it slippery.


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