Noise near shifter when in gear

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us600351
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Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby us600351 » Sat Dec 25, 2021 10:36 am

I just picked up a Cub and it runs fine however when in gear there is a noticeable noise which sounds like it is coming from the front of the gear shift. The noise occurs in all gears however when you take it out of gear and just roll it down a hill there is no noise. I am assuming it is the roller bearing on the final drive input shaft. Just seeing if you guys agree with that before I split the tractor.

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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:01 am

Transmission front bearing? When rolling, there's limited stress on it. When the driveshaft is powered, the stress increases.

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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby ricky racer » Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:03 am

I'm assuming the noise goes away when you push in the clutch. Do you get the noise with the tractor idling in neutral?
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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby Clubless » Sat Dec 25, 2021 3:10 pm

Following this thread. I have the same issue.

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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby Glen » Sat Dec 25, 2021 7:45 pm

Hi,
Welcome to the website.

If you hear noise when the clutch pedal is up, and the engine is running, with the transmission in neutral, and no noise when the clutch pedal is pushed down, there can be 2 things that I know of causing the noise.

One thing is easier to repair than the other.

People have said on here that if the shifter forks in the transmission are put in slightly in the wrong position, so 1 or both of them are rubbing on the clutch shaft, they make noise.
You have to remove the shifter cover to see the shift forks.
The forks are held on the shifter shafts with 1 bolt each, use a good light, and look closely under the forks, and see if either fork is rubbing on the shaft.
If either one is rubbing on the shaft, loosen the bolt, and turn the fork on the shaft so it doesn't contact the shaft.
The shifter cover has a gasket, it may need replacing if you remove the shifter.
Be sure both forks are in the neutral position, before putting the shifter cover on again.

The other thing is the bearings.
There are 2 bearings on the clutch shaft, it is called, in the transmission.
The shaft goes from the clutch, at the rear of the engine, to about the rear of the gearshift cover.

The bearings are below about the front and rear ends of the shifter cover.
The bearings commonly wear and get noisy after years of use.

The front bearing is a ball bearing, it is pressed onto the clutch shaft.
The rear bearing is a roller bearing, up to Cub serial number 180614, which was made during 1954.
Then IH changed the rear bearing to a needle bearing, it is a smaller OD than the roller bearing.

You didn't say the year of your Cub.

The shaft pulls out the front of the transmission, after splitting the Cub.
The rear bearing stays in the housing, until it is removed.
You have to remove the PTO, if the Cub has one, and the rear cover to get to the rear bearing.
If you remove the shaft, I would inspect the PTO splines at the rear of it, if they are not in good condition, it is a good time to replace the shaft.
If you use the same shaft again, when it is out is a good time to replace the PTO pilot bushing in the rear of it, if the bushing is worn.
TM Tractor at the bottom of the page has the bushing, and other new PTO parts.

Below are TM Tractor's trans parts, you can look at the pics.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/tr_001newparts.htm

Before splitting a Cub, put wooden wedges at the front axle pivot. A Cub is heavier on the left side, and they can tip over if parts of them are removed from the rear, or you split it without wedges.
You will need to make them from wood.
Hammer them in tight, they should be tight on the top and bottom sides.
Be sure they don't hit metal at the small end. Cut off the small end some if they hit there.
Check them some during the work, to be sure they don't loosen.

Below are pics, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are from TM Tractor.
The 1st pic shows the clutch forks, it is taken from the left side of the Cub.
The 2nd pic shows the clutch shaft, and the ball bearing on it.
The 3rd pic shows the front of the trans, the clutch shaft, and the retainer with oil seal, held on with 3 bolts.
The 4th pic shows the retainer, one side of it has a bulge, the bulged side has to face to the rear, or into the trans.
If it is put on backwards, the shaft can move ahead, and the PTO won't work right.
The 5th pic shows in the rear of the trans housing, the rear clutch shaft bearing is in the upper part of the pic.
The 6th pic shows the wedges. They can be made at less of an angle, so they contact the top side more.
Good luck. :)
Attachments
Cub trans 4.JPG
Cub trans shaft 4.jpg
Cub trans seal 2.jpg
Cub trans seal 2.jpg (24.59 KiB) Viewed 603 times
Cub Trans seal.jpg
Cub trans 24.jpg
Cub trans 24.jpg (51.92 KiB) Viewed 603 times
Cub wedges 2.jpg
Last edited by Glen on Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

us600351
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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby us600351 » Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:10 pm

ricky racer wrote:I'm assuming the noise goes away when you push in the clutch. Do you get the noise with the tractor idling in neutral?

No, there is no noise in neutral, only under power and moving

us600351
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Zip Code: 55309

Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby us600351 » Sun Dec 26, 2021 6:15 pm

Glen wrote:Hi,
Welcome to the website.

If you hear noise when the clutch pedal is up, and the engine is running, and no noise when the clutch pedal is pushed down, there can be 2 things that I know of causing the noise.

One thing is easier to repair than the other.

People have said on here that if the shifter forks in the transmission are put in slightly in the wrong position, so 1 or both of them are rubbing on the clutch shaft, they make noise.
You have to remove the shifter cover to see the shift forks.
The forks are held on the shifter shafts with 1 bolt each, use a good light, and look closely under the forks, and see if either fork is rubbing on the shaft.
If either one is rubbing on the shaft, loosen the bolt, and turn the fork on the shaft so it doesn't contact the shaft.
The shifter cover has a gasket, it may need replacing if you remove the shifter.
Be sure both forks are in the neutral position, before putting the shifter cover on again.

The other thing is the bearings.
There are 2 bearings on the clutch shaft, it is called, in the transmission.
The shaft goes from the clutch, at the rear of the engine, to about the rear of the gearshift cover.

The bearings are below about the front and rear ends of the shifter cover.
The bearings commonly wear and get noisy after years of use.

The front bearing is a ball bearing, it is pressed onto the clutch shaft.
The rear bearing is a roller bearing, up to Cub serial number 180614, which was made during 1954.
Then IH changed the rear bearing to a needle bearing, it is a smaller OD than the roller bearing.

You didn't say the year of your Cub.

The shaft pulls out the front of the transmission, after splitting the Cub.
The rear bearing stays in the housing, until it is removed.
You have to remove the PTO, if the Cub has one, and the rear cover to get to the rear bearing.
If you remove the shaft, I would inspect the PTO splines at the rear of it, if they are not in good condition, it is a good time to replace the shaft.
If you use the same shaft again, when it is out is a good time to replace the PTO pilot bushing in the rear of it, if the bushing is worn.
TM Tractor at the bottom of the page has the bushing, and other new PTO parts.

Below are TM Tractor's trans parts, you can look at the pics.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/tr_001newparts.htm

Before splitting a Cub, put wooden wedges at the front axle pivot. A Cub is heavier on the left side, and they can tip over if parts of them are removed from the rear, or you split it without wedges.
You will need to make them from wood.
Hammer them in tight, they should be tight on the top and bottom sides.
Be sure they don't hit metal at the small end. Cut off the small end some if they hit there.
Check them some during the work, to be sure they don't loosen.

Below are pics, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are from TM Tractor.
The 1st pic shows the clutch forks, it is taken from the left side of the Cub.
The 2nd pic shows the clutch shaft, and the ball bearing on it.
The 3rd pic shows the front of the trans, the clutch shaft, and the retainer with oil seal, held on with 3 bolts.
The 4th pic shows the retainer, one side of it has a bulge, the bulged side has to face to the rear, or into the trans.
If it is put on backwards, the shaft can move ahead, and the PTO won't work right.
The 5th pic shows in the rear of the trans housing, the rear clutch shaft bearing is in the upper part of the pic.
The 6th pic shows the wedges. They can be made at less of an angle, so they contact the top side more.
Good luck. :)


Wow, thanks for the detail, extremely helpful. Only makes the noise when moving in gear which made me think it is the front bearing. Good info on the wedges, had to do that when I split my A as well. I also ran a chain to the top of the motor and hooked that to my cherry picker.

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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:54 am

I hadn't seen any more comments for a while. Since I am just up the road, I thought I'd check in.

I haven't seen any description of the type of noise you are hearing. Is it a whine, a grind, a click, a growl, etc? Some types of sounds tend to suggest one type of failure while others indicate something else.

us600351
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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby us600351 » Tue Dec 28, 2021 5:54 pm

More of a growl at this point, no clunks or any sounds like metal in gears or anything like that. The sound is by the left leg, does not sound like it is coming from the gear box

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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:14 pm

A growl is likely to be a bearing, a problem others have already commented on. If the pitch stays the same when you change gears, it is likely to be one on the clutch shaft. At this point, I'd probably take the top cover off and inspect everything that is visible. You may be able to detect some inappropriate movement of the shaft that indicates where the problem is.

us600351
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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby us600351 » Fri Jan 21, 2022 5:44 pm

Hi Jim, you would not have been from Long Prairie originally?

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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby Gary S. » Fri Jan 21, 2022 6:47 pm

Think that these go bad because of water in the trans at one time?

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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby Jim Becker » Fri Jan 21, 2022 8:33 pm

us600351 wrote:Hi Jim, you would not have been from Long Prairie originally?

Nope. There are bunches of Beckers around the area. I'm not related to any of them.

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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby us600351 » Mon Feb 21, 2022 2:23 pm

Glen wrote:Hi,
Welcome to the website.

If you hear noise when the clutch pedal is up, and the engine is running, with the transmission in neutral, and no noise when the clutch pedal is pushed down, there can be 2 things that I know of causing the noise.

One thing is easier to repair than the other.

People have said on here that if the shifter forks in the transmission are put in slightly in the wrong position, so 1 or both of them are rubbing on the clutch shaft, they make noise.
You have to remove the shifter cover to see the shift forks.
The forks are held on the shifter shafts with 1 bolt each, use a good light, and look closely under the forks, and see if either fork is rubbing on the shaft.
If either one is rubbing on the shaft, loosen the bolt, and turn the fork on the shaft so it doesn't contact the shaft.
The shifter cover has a gasket, it may need replacing if you remove the shifter.
Be sure both forks are in the neutral position, before putting the shifter cover on again.

The other thing is the bearings.
There are 2 bearings on the clutch shaft, it is called, in the transmission.
The shaft goes from the clutch, at the rear of the engine, to about the rear of the gearshift cover.

The bearings are below about the front and rear ends of the shifter cover.
The bearings commonly wear and get noisy after years of use.

The front bearing is a ball bearing, it is pressed onto the clutch shaft.
The rear bearing is a roller bearing, up to Cub serial number 180614, which was made during 1954.
Then IH changed the rear bearing to a needle bearing, it is a smaller OD than the roller bearing.

You didn't say the year of your Cub.

The shaft pulls out the front of the transmission, after splitting the Cub.
The rear bearing stays in the housing, until it is removed.
You have to remove the PTO, if the Cub has one, and the rear cover to get to the rear bearing.
If you remove the shaft, I would inspect the PTO splines at the rear of it, if they are not in good condition, it is a good time to replace the shaft.
If you use the same shaft again, when it is out is a good time to replace the PTO pilot bushing in the rear of it, if the bushing is worn.
TM Tractor at the bottom of the page has the bushing, and other new PTO parts.

Below are TM Tractor's trans parts, you can look at the pics.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/tr/tr_001newparts.htm

Before splitting a Cub, put wooden wedges at the front axle pivot. A Cub is heavier on the left side, and they can tip over if parts of them are removed from the rear, or you split it without wedges.
You will need to make them from wood.
Hammer them in tight, they should be tight on the top and bottom sides.
Be sure they don't hit metal at the small end. Cut off the small end some if they hit there.
Check them some during the work, to be sure they don't loosen.

Below are pics, the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th are from TM Tractor.
The 1st pic shows the clutch forks, it is taken from the left side of the Cub.
The 2nd pic shows the clutch shaft, and the ball bearing on it.
The 3rd pic shows the front of the trans, the clutch shaft, and the retainer with oil seal, held on with 3 bolts.
The 4th pic shows the retainer, one side of it has a bulge, the bulged side has to face to the rear, or into the trans.
If it is put on backwards, the shaft can move ahead, and the PTO won't work right.
The 5th pic shows in the rear of the trans housing, the rear clutch shaft bearing is in the upper part of the pic.
The 6th pic shows the wedges. They can be made at less of an angle, so they contact the top side more.
Good luck. :)


Hi Glen and thank you again for your feedback, I am just about ready to work on the tractor, I have one question of the clutch shaft. When you split the tractor I assume you need to split at the bell housing and then take off the middle section of the cast iron frame? Also the clutch shaft itself, after removing the three bolts holding the plate to the trasnmission housing is there anything special to removing the shaft or is it as simple as just pulling the shaft out?

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Re: Noise near shifter when in gear

Postby Bill V in Md » Mon Feb 21, 2022 3:46 pm

us600351 wrote:
Hi Glen and thank you again for your feedback, I am just about ready to work on the tractor, I have one question of the clutch shaft. When you split the tractor I assume you need to split at the bell housing and then take off the middle section of the cast iron frame? Also the clutch shaft itself, after removing the three bolts holding the plate to the trasnmission housing is there anything special to removing the shaft or is it as simple as just pulling the shaft out?

When working on the transmission, it is easier to do what is called a "rear tractor split" by unbolting the torque tube at the front of the transmission case, and then separate the front and rear sections of the tractor. When you have the two sections of the tractor apart, the rear section will look like photo #2 in Glen's post. Be careful when you separate the two sections, because the input shaft is long and will be unsupported. You do not want to bend this shaft. Also, make sure you wedge the front axle. There is a good "how to" description of the rear tractor split in the Cub Service Manual.

After removing the three bolts holding the bearing retainer, I am pretty sure the input shaft (clutch splined shaft) can be simply pulled out by hand.
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