Problem starting my Cub

[red agony]

Another thing that you may want to check is the starter jammed. I don’t remember having that on a cub, but I have ran into it on others. If you take the starter back out you might try to give it a spin on the bench too.

[boldpsi]

Glen, and others,
Thanks for the diagrams, etc, they really help.
It has a pushbutton ignition.
The bracket under the floorboard has the black soleniod on it, facing the ground. But on the top if it there's a squarish plug. Both its wires are cut!
When I tried to start it by directly connecting the pos terminal with a jumper cable, when I touched the bolt on the starter that the cable is connected to, I got nothing. The normal pos cable was not attached and the neg cable was attached, directly to the floorboard bolt. No battery box right now. However if I touch any other part of the starter I get sparks and almost melted my jumper cable!
I have pics and will upload ASAP.
Take care,
Dave

[tomstractor]

It sounds like the starter is jammed or it has a problem internal. It should spin when you touched the cable to the post, if it sparks bad when touched to any other place on the starter. There should be a small spark as you touch the cable to post on the starter and the starter should spin. Any other place you touch the cable is making a short and that is why the big spark. The big spark means that the starter is making a good ground.

[boldpsi]

All,
Finally!

[Don McCombs]

[Eugene]

When I tried to start it by directly connecting the pos terminal with a jumper cable, when I touched the bolt on the starter that the cable is connected to, I got nothing. However if I touch any other part of the starter I get sparks and almost melted my jumper cable!

It sounds like the starter is jammed or it has a problem internal.

Internal problem - open, no route/electrical path to ground.

If the starter were jammed you would get a spark/short.

Take the starter back to the repair shop.

[boldpsi]

Next:
One pic shows soleniod and its bare pushbutton.
Other pic shows the squarish plug one the tractor side of the bracket that the soleniod is bolted to, with both its wires cut.
Sorry about the severe cropping, and noob-news! Thanks to the Universe for your collected patience!
Dave

[boldpsi]

And the battery as is now:

[boldpsi]

Eugene,
Thank you!
I will have him test it first-thing tomorrow!
Would anything I have documented here cause the starter to be damaged, in your opinion?
Thanks everyone for your help!!!

[red agony]

I was wondering if maybe the starter could be jammed? I haven’t seen it on cubs, but I have on several others.

[Glen]

Would anything I have documented here cause the starter to be damaged, in your opinion?

Hi,
From what you have written, I don't see that you have done anything to damage the starter.

If you connect a good quality jumper cable from the battery positive post, to the post on the starter that the cable is connected to, the starter should work, and crank the engine.
You have to connect the cable end on the post, so it is solidly connected, not touch it on so it sparks.

Some jumper cables have sort of small wire in them, and can't carry much current.
Some are made with a big insulation, that looks like big cable, but the wire is sort of small.
You might be able to see the wires at the ends where they are attached to the clamps.

I suppose someone cut the 2 wires at the push button switch under the platform, and rewired it so they didn't need to push the clutch pedal down to start the Cub, but that is a guess.

Pics from back farther, so we can see where the parts are under the platform would be nice.

[Dale Finch]

I just had to return a rebuilt starter (from a 140) to the shop. It had turned over the engine once, but the attempt to start was stopped because of an unrelated reason. The next time the start rod was pulled, only a whirring sound...on multiple attempts. Starter was taken back, where they found a sheared bolt on the previously replaced bendix. They replaced it again (no charge). Maybe it was just a cheap foreign bolt of poor quality??? Anyway, reinstalled it and it worked fine. Hope it lasts...1 yr warranty, at least!

[Glen]

Hi,
In your picture above with the battery, I see that 1 or more parts are gone from the PTO lever.
The lever is supposed to have a spring on it, to hold it up, to lock it in the engaged, or disengaged position.
You have to push the lever down, to move it to the front or rear position, then it positively locks in the forward or rear position.
Below is a page from the Longstripe Cub operator's manual showing the PTO lever.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-11.jpg

It looks like the spring is gone.
TM Tractor has a new spring, if you have any interest in fixing it.
There is a pic on the page showing how it is assembled.
You have to take the cotter key at the bottom of the lever out, to replace the spring.
Repairing it is easier with no battery box there.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/386fp.htm

The PTO lever has to have a collar in about the middle of it for the spring to push on, I'm not sure if it is there in your pic.
If it is gone, you will need another lever.
TM Tractor has a new lever, you can look at the pic.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/pt/172fp.htm

If you would rather have a lever with the original style top area, J P Tractor Salvage, at the bottom of the page might have one.

[Gary Dotson]

The switch, with the cut wires, is the clutch safety switch, a previous owner has bypassed it. For now, just ignore it, when you have other issues ironed out, you can address it, if you wish to. From the beginning, I’ve thought it sounded you got ahold of a bad starter, did the shop test it?

[boldpsi]

Everyone,
I am presently at Atlas electrical rebuilders in North Syracuse New York. I came in with the starter and John at Atlas put it on his bench he attached the negative cable (black) of a set of cables to the flange that attaches to the tractor and then attached a positive (red)cable to the bolt that the cable on the tractor attaches to. I assume that's the cable that goes to the Ignition. He then hit a switch under the bench. Lo and behold, that starter spun up instantly. He did it 10 times right in front of me.
So, this tells me that I'm doing something wrong. What should be the status of the Ignition push pull button that is to the left of the starter button on the dashboard console of the Cub? Should that be engaged (or pulled out)? Should the negative terminal of the battery be connected to the tractor? Should I do the bypass scenario where I take a jumper cable from the positive terminal to the bolt on the starter, and connect them, and then hit the Ignition button? I'm sorry I seem so stupid about this, but something's weird here that I'm not getting... obv!
Dave