Engine Work - Update

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Stanton
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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Stanton » Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:15 am

tst wrote:are those the correct rod nuts, they should be a locking style nut ? yours looked like a normal nut


Came across this picture of a locking rod nut from another site:
Connecting Rod Nut Locking Type.jpg


Here's another style:
Whiz nuts.JPG


Which style would you recommend?

If I remember right, mine were just regular nuts. I don't recall any locking features. There were the ones that were on there when I removed them to do the rebuild. I'll double-check, since the underneath side of the crankcase is still open. Now that you mention it, IIRC, there were a couple connecting rod nuts that were very easy to back off when disassembling.

Thanks.
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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby tst » Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:21 am

the nut on the right in the top pic are good to use

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Gary S. » Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:45 pm

How do you get the correct torque reading on a distorted thread nut?

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby ricky racer » Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:59 pm

I think with proper torque and maybe some blue Loctite, regular nuts will work just fine. I've pulled some engines apart with lock nuts and some without (with no Loctite either) and there never seemed to be a problem.
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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Stanton » Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:19 pm

Gary S. wrote:How do you get the correct torque reading on a distorted thread nut?


Don’t believe they are distorted. TST just noticed that they didn’t appear to be locking type nuts.

I dropped by Fastenal and picked these up:
B1B988EC-EC35-4BCB-975C-5F06946FBAE5.jpeg


They confirmed that Grade C was equal to Grade 8 or better. A 100 count bag, I have enough to do 11 more overhauls!
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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Gary S. » Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:46 pm

The ones you originally used are not distorted- the ones tst pointed out are. You will not get an accurate torque reading on them. The most accurate tightening method is stretch measurement which is the more modern way of doing things. But I'm sure there is no spec's out there for that. Google loctite on rod nuts for info on that

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Gary S. » Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:59 pm

Stanton when the deformed part of the nuts you bought come into contact with the threads of the rod bolt your torque reading on your torque wrench will increase because it will take more force for it to move on the threads. Your torque wrench will think it's now tight when in fact the nut is not up to factory torque spec's. The bearing will not have it's proper crush and can spin. Do some google research. When a rod bolt has the proper torque the bolt will stretch. It is that stretch that keeps the nut from vibrating loose. Even though your 60+ year IHC rod bolts are far from ARP's standards go look on their site and read "fastener tech" https://arp-bolts.com/

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Stanton » Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm

Gary S. wrote:The ones you originally used are not distorted- the ones tst pointed out are. You will not get an accurate torque reading on them. The most accurate tightening method is stretch measurement which is the more modern way of doing things. But I'm sure there is no spec's out there for that. Google loctite on rod nuts for info on that


Well, now I’m confused. Are you talking about the connecting rod nuts? There’s only two per connecting rod. These?
309C3C3A-B2A1-4599-8EED-463CB181E52D.jpeg
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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:01 pm

you can come fairly close torquing a lock nut. See how much torque it takes to turn the nut before it contacts the rod cap. Add that much to the target torque reading. Do the first reading on each nut. Don't expect them to be the same.

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Gary S. » Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:48 pm

Your talking about using those Fastenal nuts you bought for your rods right?

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Clemsonfor » Mon Feb 07, 2022 8:52 pm

Jim Becker wrote:you can come fairly close torquing a lock nut. See how much torque it takes to turn the nut before it contacts the rod cap. Add that much to the target torque reading. Do the first reading on each nut. Don't expect them to be the same.

I thought he was talking about the deformed nut will take more effort to tighten.

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:06 pm

Clemsonfor wrote:
Jim Becker wrote:you can come fairly close torquing a lock nut. See how much torque it takes to turn the nut before it contacts the rod cap. Add that much to the target torque reading. Do the first reading on each nut. Don't expect them to be the same.

I thought he was talking about the deformed nut will take more effort to tighten.

So did I.

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby SamsFarm » Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:12 am

What was wrong with the old original nuts?

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby indy61 » Tue Feb 08, 2022 7:18 am

The parts lookup shows a center lock nut for the connecting rod bolt but I don't know if it matters.
It also states "EXCEPT FARMALL CUB TRACTORS W/ENGINE SERIAL NO. 501 TO 57557 AND 59290 TO 59482"... I don't know what would have been different on those engines.

https://www.mcmaster.com/centerlock-nut ... e~5-16-24/

Untitled.jpg

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Re: Engine Work - Update

Postby Gary Dotson » Tue Feb 08, 2022 8:34 am

While I have no issue with using lock nuts on the connecting rod bolts, it’s really not a very common practice. Mostly, I’ve seen them used on smaller single or twin cylinder engines. Some engines have used the thin sheet metal jam nuts that are installed after the nut is torqued. Connecting rod nuts coming loose are really pretty rare. I seldom use any form of thread locker although I’m not opposed to a bit of lock tite.


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