1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

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mbgardner
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1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby mbgardner » Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:39 pm

Thanks to all who responded to my request for market valuation guidance from 1.5 years ago. I bought the cub mower, blade and trailer for $850. A steal. Put some fresh gas in and it started. Change the oil, filter gas charged the battery and have been using as second tractor in my hayfields pulling a NH 258 rollover rake. Had some issues charging when i first brought it to my mechanic to go over it. Seems like it would always be discharging, but you could bump the regulator and get it to charge.

So finally this year went to use it. battery was in need of a charge. Jumped it, ran for a couple of passes. It died and wouldn't start although it would crank. Charged it up. same thing. I recall it discharging and would deep discharge with lights on.

Fast forward. want to use if for second cutting. Seems like it will start cold, But not after it warms up.

No juice at the battery side of the coil. Took the regulator off to get at the battery terminal on the coil. The regulator clearly states 6v positive ground. The battery in the box is setup as negative ground. Seems like the battery got put in backwards, maybe by my mechanic. He may have removed it to charge it the first time.

Took the hot lead off and taped it. Jumped around it from the starter. Starts right up. Seems like it would run all day. No lights, nothing happening through the ammeter.

Thinking i may have a bad push pull switch. Looks like its hard to get at to jumper across it as the trouble shooting guide suggests.

Is this a simple as turning the battery around in the box??

Maybe replacing the switch??

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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby Eugene » Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:17 pm

I would start by having the battery tested. If good install it positive ground, then polarize the generator.

Appears the generator/regulator is not charging.

If the battery is not good, decision time. Probably the least expensive route is to convert the tractor to 12 volts.

My opinion. If it's a work tractor and you do not care if it's orginal, go the 12 volt route.
I have an excuse. CRS.

mbgardner
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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby mbgardner » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:43 pm

thanks Eugene

mbgardner
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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby mbgardner » Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:44 pm

How does one polarize a generator?

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Bill V in Md
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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby Bill V in Md » Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:11 pm

mbgardner wrote:How does one polarize a generator?

Using a short length of jumper wire you simply make a momentary connection between the Batt and Gen terminals on the cutout (or voltage regulator). You should get a little spark. Do this with the tractor not running.
Bill VanHooser
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mbgardner
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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby mbgardner » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:12 am

thanks!

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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby tst » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:17 am

here is a flow chart to help with the charging
Attachments
08-Regulatortroubleshootingchartrev.gif

mbgardner
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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby mbgardner » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:04 pm

Thanks guys.
So the only means i have to test my battery is a volt meter. I have 6.2+ across the terminals. I get 1.7+ between the cells and one cell to a terminal. but one cell to the other terminal is like .5 V. I knowingly switched the battery around to positive ground and polarized the generator. (no spark). Wouldn't start, except by hotwiring the coil from the starter post. I forgot to mention the battery does draw down to 4.75 when cranking the starter.
I know the battery isn't in top shape. but I have trouble cranking the starter.
I still have no lights. they did work last year. nothing really going on with the ammeter needle although it does seems to sit on the discharge side of 0.
I read in the trouble shooting guide that the motor needs to be running 1/2 speed. I was just messing around and slow idle.
I'll try goosing it up tomorrow to see if the ammeter does anything. The trouble shooting guide is greatly appreciated.Thanks tst

mbgardner
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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby mbgardner » Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:27 am

PS: Couldn't read the markings on the Regulator but from various parts sources, i concluded the generator contact is all by itself on one side and the middle terminal on the opposite side is the Battery. Please advise if i am mistaken

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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby tst » Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:44 am

yes polarize it from the middle terminal and the single one on the other side

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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby Waif » Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:25 am

Just noticed the battered aluminum foil cake pan I put on the regulator to deflect rain when it is parked is missing.
Parked it in the dark and had left the pan on the ground.
Betting my ladyfriend found it and tossed it in the trash.
Ooops....

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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby mbgardner » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:23 am

Update:
So armed with the foregoing information, a charged battery, properly grounded, and polarized generator, i started the cub up hotwired to the coil. I think I tried it without the hotwire first and it wouldn't start, I know i tried later and it still won't start without the hotwire.

With the engine running at least if not more than half speed, things started working right, like the lights (front and back) (back with dim front lights??) (back only?) It's only a 3 position switch if i recall correctly. I even saw the ammeter charging. I was so excited, i started to fool around with the hotwire, light switch and start stop switch. In the process, I think with the lights on perhaps and the start stop switch on, I burnt up the hotwire.

Now it seems like i'm back at square one. nothing works properly and it will only run with a new hotwire. I guess i will check the fuse next. and repolarize the generator.

How does one get access to the start stop switch and the ammeter. Does the fuel tank have to be remove or pushed aside? Will the switch pull of the casting by removing the locknut?

Thanks in advance for any further advice. Is replacing the battery critical to the charging system working properly or further troubleshooting this problem? Is the battery not good enough in that it starts the cranking motor?

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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby Urbish » Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:53 pm

Can't answer all of your questions at the moment, but one can remove the gas tank/hood and hook up a pony tank while diagnosing electrical gremlins. Or you can remove the fasteners that hold the dash and support the rear of the tank/hood while you fiddle. I would recommend the former, especially if your wires are old and crusty as you won't disturb the harness as much.
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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby tst » Tue Aug 03, 2021 7:51 pm

start switch can be removed without taking it all apart, fuse is only for the headlights, to correctly test a charging system battery needs to be in good shape, fully charged

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Re: 1953 F Cub Electrical conundrum

Postby Glen » Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:12 pm

Hi,
If the Cub has an original style ignition switch, it might be making poor contact inside it.
Try working it both ways many times, and see if it improves it. You could try getting WD 40 into it, around the shaft.
You could disconnect the battery ground cable while you work the switch, then the coil won't be subjected to on and off repeatedly.

You have to remove the switch knob, and the nut, and the switch comes out behind the dash.
The knob screws on and off the knob shaft, to remove the knob, put a small punch through the hole in the shaft to keep the shaft from turning.

The fuse in the fuse holder at the bottom of the dash is for the lights, not the ignition, if it is still connected the original way.

Below are pics from TM Tractor of the original style ignition switch, for a Battery Ignition unit.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gel ... ng_001.htm

TM Tractor has new ignition switches, including the one Case IH sells, I think.
Places online have a new original style switch, below are listings, I don't know how the quality of them is. 62801 DC is the IH part number of it. :)

https://www.amazon.com/62801DC-Ignition ... B01AAQJKAY

https://www.walmart.com/ip/62801DC-Igni ... 270f73417f


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