clutch issue

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Glen
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Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
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Location: Wa.

Re: clutch issue

Postby Glen » Fri Apr 02, 2021 8:55 pm

Hi,
I can't see what is wrong with it without being there. Some pics might be helpful.

The pressure plate springs looked compressed in your pic on page 1 of this post.
If the 3 fingers are up to the normal position, the springs should not be tightly compressed.
They should be compressed some though.

If the pilot bushing has the running clearance shown in the Cub service manual, it should work right, and the clutch shaft stop turning in 2 or 3 seconds when you push the clutch pedal down.

If you replace the pilot bushing, after putting it in the crankshaft hole, be sure to measure it's ID with a dial caliper before putting the pressure plate on the flywheel.
If the clearance is too small, the bushing needs reaming to make it bigger.

I would put a light layer of grease in the pilot bushing, and on the end of the clutch shaft that goes in the bushing, when you put the Cub together.

Turn the clutch shaft when the Cub is split and be sure it turns straight, and it's not bent.
I hope it works better again.

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Lt.Mike
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Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
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Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:26 am

Thanks guys. I it’s really hard to say what’s going with this so I ordered new parts from TM last Friday and as usual the hustled getting it out to me and it all was delivered on Monday. I also got a $5 refund on shipping . Ron’s the only guy I know who does that. Thanks!
I put the graphite bearing in a baggie with oil yesterday and will let it soak for a couple days.
I have a full week ahead of me so I might not be able to get to it until next Monday.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

Waif
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Re: clutch issue

Postby Waif » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:56 pm

Lt.Mike wrote::help:
I swear to God I feel like putting a match to this thing!
Yesterday I split the tractor, again. Pulled it all apart and put it back together today, again. The fingers are all adjusted to 1-1/4" and the TO bearing sits 1/8" back. I pull the clutch pedal and watch it lift off the plate. The springs are not fully compressed at rest.
Fired it up, press the pedal and the SOB still won't release ! Damn !
Is the pilot bushing grabbing? It's not new and has done its job for many years. If it's whipped is that it? I shut it down and rolled the tractor in neutral and see no movement in the engine.
I'm at my wits end with this thing. Wasn't ever one to throw wrenches but I was there today. It's got the better of me and it isn't pretty. I have more important projects to get done but this little tractor was my first and I'd hate to roll it out to join the others "that don't run and will be fixed one day."
I don't want to walk away from it again with out it going back in service.
I know I'm going to have to split it a third time and all I can think of is to throw money at it and replace it all, pressure plate, disk, TO bearing (go back to graphite) and the pilot bushing.
Another thought you guys don't grease yours right (pilot bushing) ?


Don't throw a wrench at me..
Much grease in a pilot bushing could change it's depth. Increasing shaft length.

I have a problem child clutch on one Cub a proficient friend replaced.
Guessing it's....Well , different than your case anyways. Mine works! (Mostly.)

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Lt.Mike
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Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:38 am
Zip Code: 07727
Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
2 - '46 International A's
2 - '52 Farmall Cubs
1 - '53 Farmall Super A
1 - ‘41 Ford 9N with a ‘49 8N Engine
1 - ‘48 (5641) Allis Chalmers G
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sat May 22, 2021 5:21 pm

Well I got a lot of small pop up side projects out of the way but I’m going to need the shop space to install a new exhaust on my Jeep so the Cub must get done and out.
Been putting it off long enough.
Went back out and split it again today. Good thing I bought a new pressure plate because I found this one with one side and one finger busted off it.
Whatever. :roll:
All new parts are going back in.
I had also bought a new pilot bushing to swap in as long as it’s apart.
I packed it with grease and drove a rod in with a hammer to pop the old bushing out but that trick isn’t working this time. Doesn’t want to budge.
I haven’t tried bread yet, maybe tomorrow unless someone has another trick I can try.
:hattip:
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

tst
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Re: clutch issue

Postby tst » Sat May 22, 2021 5:25 pm

run a tap in it, screw in bolt and then pull it out

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Dale Finch
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Re: clutch issue

Postby Dale Finch » Sat May 22, 2021 7:01 pm

Yeah, there's a HOW TO for that... I think you use a long enough bolt that you just keep screwing it in, and once it hits the end/front of the hole, it starts backing out the bushing. Haven't done it though! Good luck!
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Lt.Mike
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Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:38 am
Zip Code: 07727
Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
2 - '46 International A's
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1 - '53 Farmall Super A
1 - ‘41 Ford 9N with a ‘49 8N Engine
1 - ‘48 (5641) Allis Chalmers G
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sat May 22, 2021 7:15 pm

I’ll give that a try. Thanks.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

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Dale Finch
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Tractors Owned: '51 Cub "Bernie" with Fast Hitch
'55 Cub "Bruno" with Woods 59 mower
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'55 Cub "Ben" with Woods 42 mower
'56 Cub "Boris" with Mott Flail mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: NC, Chapel Hill

Re: clutch issue

Postby Dale Finch » Sat May 22, 2021 9:53 pm

Just in case you haven't read it yet...
It took me a while to find it cuz it was on page 2 of the section covering the clutch...but here it is:
http://farmallcub.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=22925
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User avatar
Lt.Mike
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:38 am
Zip Code: 07727
Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
2 - '46 International A's
2 - '52 Farmall Cubs
1 - '53 Farmall Super A
1 - ‘41 Ford 9N with a ‘49 8N Engine
1 - ‘48 (5641) Allis Chalmers G
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sun May 23, 2021 7:56 am

Thank you Dale, Tim.
:hattip:
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

User avatar
Lt.Mike
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:38 am
Zip Code: 07727
Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
2 - '46 International A's
2 - '52 Farmall Cubs
1 - '53 Farmall Super A
1 - ‘41 Ford 9N with a ‘49 8N Engine
1 - ‘48 (5641) Allis Chalmers G
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sun May 23, 2021 2:13 pm

Ok that worked well to get the pilot bushing out.
I used a large welding clamp to hold the flywheel from turning.
I put the new pilot bushing in using a cut off bolt that had the same diameter as the inner diameter of the bushing and a stack of washers above the bushing. I tapped it gently in with a ball pen against the bolt head and it went in nice and straight. The only thing is it stopped with about a 1/16” out instead of flush like the other.
Will it matter?
Also found the TO bearing cradle got bent when the pressure plate finger broke off.
Had a time getting that right so the TO bearing moved freely.
The new plate is on but not adjusted yet.
May wait until tomorrow to adjust that and finish bolting the two halves together.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

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Glen
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Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: clutch issue

Postby Glen » Sun May 23, 2021 7:10 pm

Hi,
I don't know if you checked the length of the old and new pilot bushings, if they are the same length, the new one should go in the hole to the same position.

Below is info about the clutch, if you need it. I wrote some of it at my post at the top of the page.

If you replace the pilot bushing, after putting it in the crankshaft hole, be sure to measure it's ID with a dial caliper before putting the pressure plate on the flywheel.
If the clearance is too small, the bushing needs reaming to make it bigger.

You probably know, the pilot bushing ID can shrink after driving it in the hole. Then if you put the Cub together, the clutch shaft won't stop turning when you push the clutch pedal down.

Below is a page from the Cub service manual, showing the running clearance for the pilot bushing, at Spline and clutch shaft.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/gss- ... 005-02.jpg

Be sure to put in a straight throwout bearing holder, and check it's holes, and the pin at the top of the holder for wear.
The holder should not move up and down, or side to side, so the throwout bearing is centered on the 3 pressure plate fingers.
Bend the upper part of the holder if needed, so it is out almost against the casting, and has very little side to side movement. The bearing has to be centered side to side with the 3 fingers.
TM Tractor has a new holder and pin, if you need them.
Their holder is for Cubs serial number 32229 and above.

The holder has to hold the throwout bearing snugly, so the top of the bearing doesn't flop down and rub on the fingers.

I would put a light layer of grease in the pilot bushing, and on the end of the clutch shaft that goes in the bushing, when you put the Cub together.

Turn the clutch shaft when the Cub is split and be sure it turns straight, and it's not bent.
Good luck. :)

User avatar
Lt.Mike
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Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:38 am
Zip Code: 07727
Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
2 - '46 International A's
2 - '52 Farmall Cubs
1 - '53 Farmall Super A
1 - ‘41 Ford 9N with a ‘49 8N Engine
1 - ‘48 (5641) Allis Chalmers G
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:05 am

Ok it’s finally back together and is working great though if I were to ride the clutch slightly I get a dub, dub, dub, as if one of the fingers was out further than the others. I don’t Know how that could be as I used a caliper checking and rechecking them to be equal at slightly less than 1-1/4”.
What that comes down to is like the old joke, “hey Doc, it hurts when I do this, So don’t do that! :)”. Ya if I operate the clutch as I should it’s perfectly fine. :beer:
I adjusted the peddle height differently than the book so that the clutch is released a hair before the peddle hits the stop. That way at rest the throwout bearing backs further away from the fingers. No chance of them rubbing on the bearing in operation.
I did drive the pilot bushing gently into its position all the way. It was my fault it hadn’t gone in all the way the first try for lack of sufficient shims on the tool I made. :oops:
I took a long bolt that was the same diameter of the inner diameter of the driveshaft and cut the threaded portion off then rounded the cut end slightly. A couple large washers against the bolt head, a couple large nuts as spacers, a steel bushing and then the pilot bushing.
The bolt was greased slightly to prevent marring the bushing. I then put this to the crank and gently tapping the bolt head the bushing went in straight without deforming its end.
The bolt end was bottoming out in the crank which is why it hadn’t gone in completely the first try. :roll: That occurred to me afterward so I added another nut as a shim at it went into place like butter. :)
I did use a new pressure plate on this try which I think was the main culprit for my problems.
A new graphite TO bearing went in also because I was tired of playing and went back to square one, something I knew worked in the past.
I was anxious about getting it back together which accounted for my putting it off again and again. There’s been a lot of stuff going on lately and I didn’t need to get frustrated with one more thing... but I did need to get this done.
The crack in the head is now patched, no leaks.
The clutch is good now, it fires over and idles like a sewing machine. I even stripped and painted a couple of the more ugly parts on it that have been bugging me.
:worthy:
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

SamsFarm
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Re: clutch issue

Postby SamsFarm » Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:21 am

And here I thought you'd put that bearing type throw out back in after finding the broken pressure plate!

:(

Just think of all the graphite you'll be burning off while you back up that hay wagon!

I bet I burned some life off of mine backing up hay wagons!

:(
1968 Cub fast hitch

User avatar
Lt.Mike
10+ Years
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Posts: 2432
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:38 am
Zip Code: 07727
Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
2 - '46 International A's
2 - '52 Farmall Cubs
1 - '53 Farmall Super A
1 - ‘41 Ford 9N with a ‘49 8N Engine
1 - ‘48 (5641) Allis Chalmers G
Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:08 pm

SamsFarm wrote:And here I thought you'd put that bearing type throw out back in after finding the broken pressure plate!

:(

Just think of all the graphite you'll be burning off while you back up that hay wagon!

I bet I burned some life off of mine backing up hay wagons!

:(

That was the third time splitting the tractor and I will admit it broke me and I was done experimenting. The roller bearing will go back on the shelf for another day.
The hay wagon is for the A or SA, the Cub will be used mainly for towing the landscape trailer, 17 cubic ft yard cart, parking the aluminum boat ( yes it has a front hitch) and snowplow duties for the small to average storms. The super A will handle the bigger tow jobs and heavier snow storms. The last complete clutch assembly I put in the Lo-Boy lasted 10 years.
If I have to do it again 10 years from now I’ll just be glad to still be around to do it. ;
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

SamsFarm
501 Club
501 Club
Posts: 1265
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:21 pm
Zip Code: 44410
Tractors Owned: 1968 Cub Fast Hitch
LF-1 Platform Carrier
144 Cultivators
L-F194 Plow(s)
F38 Disk
L-F3 Spring Tooth Harrow
Fast Hitch CS Bell 60 Grain Mill
Home Made Fast Hitch Potato Plow
54A Blade

Couple 1948 Cubs
172 Runner Planter
53 Fertilizer
Cub-3 Field Cultivator
Cub-189 Two Way Plow
Cub-22 Sickle Bar Mower
Mechanical Transplanter with side mount barrel (needs a fast hitch adapter) :)

Misc Belly Mowers

Wish List
International 100 Fast Hitch Blade
Mott Fast Hitch Flail Mower

Wish Wish Wish List
Fast Hitch Rotary Hoe
4E hammer mill
Location: Ne Ohio

Re: clutch issue

Postby SamsFarm » Sun Jun 06, 2021 4:09 pm

Lt.Mike wrote:If I have to do it again 10 years from now I’ll just be glad to still be around to do it. ;


Amen to that! :)
1968 Cub fast hitch


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