clutch issue

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Lt.Mike
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clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:31 pm

I recently split my '58 Lo-Boy because I couldn't get the clutch to disengage figuring the throwout bearing was shot. Ok well it was so I put a TO bearing in and a new clutch disk too as long as I had it apart.
Clearing snow from back to back storms (with the SA and Paula's Cub), my own back protesting shoveling and other things that have popped up have held me off from finishing this project.
Today with nothing else on my schedule I went out to the barn and got it back together, changed the oil, replaced and repaired the leaking head bolt, filled the oil reservoir in the fan pulley (it leaks from the back, that'll be another days project), topped off the TC again, greased fittings and fired it over on a pony tank.
Ran beautiful as far as the engine goes but the clutch still won't disengage. I tried adjusting the fingers but that doesn't appear to be the issue. Even with solid pressure on the fingers the pressure plate won't lift in fact the springs look fully compressed without the TO bearing pressing in it. The fingers also seem really loose in their seat, kinda floppy too. I crawled under another Cub and watched as I pulled the peddle down. I could see the springs compress and the pressure plate lift. I've done this job before without a problem and I don't believe I did anything different. could the pressure plate be worn out? I would expect it to slip badly when that happens not this.

It looks close in this pic but the TO bearing isn't making contact and the plate is at rest but the springs look fully compressed. What the heck?
Image
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Eugene
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Re: clutch issue

Postby Eugene » Sat Feb 20, 2021 5:59 pm

Appears to be a gap between the pressure plate and clutch disk.

Have someone depress and hold down the clutch pedal. Try slipping a .010 feeler gauge between the clutch disk and the pressure plate.

Thinking, clutch disk installed backwards. Probably not.

My other thought is that the pilot shaft bushing got buggered up installing the tractor rear.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Bill V in Md
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Re: clutch issue

Postby Bill V in Md » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:13 pm

There is a little spring clip under each finger. These clips are supposed to engage a small tab on the pressure plate. If they are not engaged, the fingers will not do their job. Also, why can't I see the grease fitting on the throw-out bearing?
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Lt.Mike
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Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:33 pm

The clutch is holding pressure with no slippage , the disc was installed with the extended spline portion towards the rear of the tractor.
Also you don’t see a grease fitting because there is none. It’s an automotive roller bearing type TO.
Snowplowing took its toll on the graphite TO bearing so I figured to give this type a try.
The pressure plate that’s in there was installed new some 10 years ago and I still have the factory pressure plate which I’m thinking about swapping back in.
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Re: clutch issue

Postby tst » Sat Feb 20, 2021 6:54 pm

that throwout bearing may change the measurements on the fingers, I have not seen a roller type any good, I have replaced many of those with problems installed by others

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Glen
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Re: clutch issue

Postby Glen » Sat Feb 20, 2021 7:03 pm

Hi,
If the clutch fingers and springs are compressed, and the throwout bearing is not touching the fingers, I think you would have been able to see it before putting the 2 halves of the LoBoy together.
I don't know if the springs looked compressed before you put the halves together.

You put in a different kind of throwout bearing, I guess, did you check the clutch pedal free play, it has to have 1" of free play, measured at the surface where you put your foot.
It might be the different bearing causing a problem, just a guess.

Below is a page from the 1957 Cub LoBoy operator's manual showing adjusting the free play.
There is a drawing of the clutch there also.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2057.jpg

The fan assembly on Cubs and LoBoys will leak oil if it is filled too much, there is no seal at the rear of the assembly, on the shaft.
After putting in oil, you have to turn the filler hole down, and let the excess oil out, then it should not leak from the rear.
Below is a page from the operator's manual showing oiling the fan.
It uses light motor oil.
There is a small rubber seal on the filler screw, be careful not to lose it. Sometimes they are stuck on the hub, and sometimes they stay on the screw. If it is stuck on the hub, just thread the screw through it. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2036.jpg

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Lt.Mike
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Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:17 pm

Glen wrote:Hi,
If the clutch fingers and springs are compressed, and the throwout bearing is not touching the fingers, I think you would have been able to see it before putting the 2 halves of the LoBoy together.
I don't know if the springs looked compressed before you put the halves together.

You’d think :roll:
I’ve done this job a couple times before and never had an issue with the clutch itself so I didn’t expect one, they just went together.
The only problem I ever had was with the shaft getting grabbed by a new pilot bushing.
When your looking at the back of it while bolting it up I could only see the back of the springs. It’s not noticeable From that angle but if I had looked from from the side or under the tractor after something’s not working as it should it becomes obvious. :oops:
Never had an issue so I wasn’t looking for one.
Now I’ve got to pull it apart.

You put in a different kind of throwout bearing, I guess, did you check the clutch pedal free play, it has to have 1" of free play, measured at the surface where you put your foot.
It might be the different bearing causing a problem, just a guess.

I got the TO bearing from one of our (well respected) sponsors here and compared its dimensions to the one it replaced it was correct. It’s sold for the Cub as an option from the usual graphite bearing and I’m certainly not the first to install one. Besides without the TO bearing even touching the fingers the pressure plate springs are fully compressed Yet it’s tight against the disk. (?)
I adjusted all of it correctly then wrong bringing the fingers way out passed specs trying to get some result but with the peddle pushed and the TO bearing hard against the fingers they wouldn’t move because the springs were already compressed and had nothing left to give.

The fan assembly on Cubs and LoBoys will leak oil if it is filled too much, there is no seal at the rear of the assembly, on the shaft.
After putting in oil, you have to turn the filler hole down, and let the excess oil out, then it should not leak from the rear.
Below is a page from the operator's manual showing oiling the fan.
It uses light motor oil.
There is a small rubber seal on the filler screw, be careful not to lose it. Sometimes they are stuck on the hub, and sometimes they stay on the screw. If it is stuck on the hub, just thread the screw through it. :)

That was probably the case then because I did notice the leaking did stop. I saw the gasket and it’s good.

Below is a page from the 1957 Cub LoBoy operator's manual showing adjusting the free play.
There is a drawing of the clutch there also.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2057.jpg

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2036.jpg

I’ll go back over this until I figure out what happened.
Probably end up splitting and unbolting the plate to see if the spring expand, bolt it back up and bolt up the original plate I took out 10 years ago to see if there’s a difference.
I’ve done this enough, shouldn’t have been an issue.
Last edited by Lt.Mike on Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: clutch issue

Postby tst » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:26 pm

did you adjust fingers to 1 1/8''

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Lt.Mike
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Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Sat Feb 20, 2021 8:42 pm

tst wrote:did you adjust fingers to 1 1/8''

Originaly yes, but when it didn’t release I adjusted them way out to see if the disk would lift or move at all but the plates springs are fully compressed without anything pressing on it, there was no room for movement.
It’s not the bearing.
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: clutch issue

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:54 pm

Most new pressure plates are supposedly preadjusted, but it is not the correct adjustment for a cub. The fingers have to be adjusted out further for the cub, and the adjustment has to be done with it bolted to the flywheel and clutch disk. I have had to replace the adjustment screws on the fingers with longer ones a time or two, and now keep some on hand just in case.
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Re: clutch issue

Postby Don B. » Tue Feb 23, 2021 9:57 am

If the pressure plate is clamping the clutch disc to the flywheel and the bearing isn't touching it, it seems like the new clutch disc is WAY too thick. (And I don't know how that could be possible.) This is very weird.
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Re: clutch issue

Postby SamsFarm » Sun Mar 14, 2021 6:22 pm

Lt.Mike wrote:I recently split my '58 Lo-Boy because I couldn't get the clutch to disengage figuring the throwout bearing was shot.



Ever get this figured out?
1968 Cub fast hitch

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Lt.Mike
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Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:38 am
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Tractors Owned: 1 -'58 International Cub Lo-Boy
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Location: Farmingdale NJ

Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:44 pm

I walked away from it for a little while. Wasn’t in a productive frame of mind. :(
Got some other projects done that I needed to do and will probably get back to it this week.
Mind you it’s still sitting in the middle of my shop. I walk in stop, look at it and walk around, stop look again and so it goes.
I’ve done that job a couple times without issue and I’m damned if I know what I did wrong this time. :(
Ya Don I agree it is weird. John, I’m thinking about the longer screw idea having merit but as long as it doesn’t spread them wider than than the TO bearing.
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"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"

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Re: clutch issue

Postby SamsFarm » Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:03 am

Lt.Mike wrote:I walked away from it for a little while. Wasn’t in a productive frame of mind. :(


Sometimes a taking a break is best! The thought of resplitting the tractor sucks!!! :(

I like the idea of the bearing type throw out.....

I had to replace mine when I first got it and to tell you the truth, I was not impressed with the idea of the graphite type.
I saved my original casting thinking I might need to modify it to the bearing type if the graphite did not last!

That was about 17 years ago! :lol:
1968 Cub fast hitch

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Re: clutch issue

Postby Lt.Mike » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:59 pm

So I got some other projects done which went smooth enough to make me feel like I got some of my mechanical mojo back. Yesterday I figured I’d address the leaking head bolt, again.
I had replaced it and gave it a liberal coating of thread sealer. Fired it over, it’s fine. Look at it the next morning and it’s been leaking. :roll:
That didn’t help my mood after the clutch repair issue. (Which still needs to be addressed)
Ok so like I said I went at it again yesterday. Figured I’d get the leak fixed before I split the tractor again. So I pulled the bolt cleaned it all up used a flat washer with it this time, coated it and reinstalled it. I refilled it with coolant and fired it over. Once warmed up I retightenednthe bolt. No leaks, great.
Today I go out and I see it, leaking again !
I never had such a simple thing give me so much trouble. Drained the coolant, cleaned it all out using a bore brush and spray. This time I put the bolt back without a washer and used hi temp red permatex rtv sealant, the same I use for water necks and gasket applications.
I’m going to let that set up over night before I refill the coolant and fire it.
If it leaks again... :roll:
Quote by Gary Pickeral I like
"If it can cast a shadow, it can be restored"


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