Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

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WDuggan
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Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub 1947 and several smaller cub cadets..original, 70, 105, 122, 782

Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby WDuggan » Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:59 am

Hi, I'm new to posting on this site and really welcome some help on a frozen clutch.

I'm working on a 1947 Cub serial # 7180, 6volt with magneto and restoring it. I put in my garage over a year ago and I could put it gear without any issue back then (New England, un-heated garage).

After new tires, new mag, paint, wires, wire harness, battery box, lights, ...and found and added touch controls ... I can't budge the clutch pedal.
Referring to page 47 of the operators guide, I can loosen the cap screw "A" and move the pedal but the rotating slotted lever will not budge.

I opened up the hand hole cover and sprayed some pb rustbuster in. The springs look ok but any pressure on the rod will not move it in or out. So I don't know if the rod/pedal is the issue or in the clutch/ throw out bearing?
I could disconnect the rod and eliminate that ( I think that would prove its not in the pedal assembly) but in the clutch?

I would prefer not opening up the tractor and replacing the clutch but if I have to I will of course but wanted to check all my options.

Are there other things I could do to identify what the issue is?
Thank you all in advance for any help.

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Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby tst » Mon Jan 04, 2021 11:58 am

sounds like the pivot tube in the housing is froze up, a 1947 would not have the slotted adjustment for a clutch pedal so the tractor has been modified or is newer than you think, sometimes the bolster was replaced and the serial # is rivet to it gets changed with the bolster

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Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:05 pm

I would suggest that you do as you considering, pull the pin that connects the rod to the throwout bearing carrier. Then you will be able to tell if the problem is at the pedal shaft or inside the bell housing. My hunch is the clutch disk has stuck to the pressure plate and flywheel. But there is no point splitting the tractor until you know that is where the problem is.

WDuggan
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Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub 1947 and several smaller cub cadets..original, 70, 105, 122, 782

Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby WDuggan » Mon Jan 04, 2021 1:57 pm

thank you for the reply and suggestions I really appreciate it. I'm hoping its the pivot vs. the plate stuck to the pressure plate. Hoping for the best.
Here is a picture of the linkage and plate.
Is there a way to dissemble the pivot?

I'll try to detach it at the bell housing and see if that has any effect. The cable is the battery cable behind the pedal.
Thanks again.

Cub-plate.JPG
clutch-pivot.JPG

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John *.?-!.* cub owner
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Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:45 pm

That is definitely a clutch pedal setup for a later model than you mentioned. The serial number you listed would not have the bolt and slot, all that would be solid, and the pedal adjustment was via a turnbuckle inside the tube right at the pressure plate. A real pain. I suspect it is seized where the shaft enter the housing at the pedal. Time to spray it there and get PB Blaster on the pretty paint. Might even be stuck from paint. Have you tried a serious push with your foot, or just used your hand?
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Glen
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Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby Glen » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:03 am

Hi,
It sounds like the clutch pedal base may be frozen, and need lubing. It is sort of a common problem.

If the Cub has the original front end and serial number plate, someone has changed the clutch pedal adjustment, or clutch housing to a newer one.

There were 2 styles of clutch pedal adjustments used, the 1st style was from the beginning, Cub serial number 501, to 32228, the Cub parts manual shows.

Below is a page from the 1947 Cub operator's manual, showing the adjustment for the 1st style.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-40.jpg

Below is a page from the 1949 Cub operator's manual showing the adjustment for the 2nd style, 32229 and above.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-40.jpg

Below is a page from the Cub parts manual showing the parts.
Number 23 in the pic is not used on a 1947 Cub.

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-04.jpg

If the clutch pedal is free moving at the base, you can easily move it through the 1" of free play it should have, before it begins working the 3 pressure plate fingers.

There should be a pedal return spring under the platform, that pulls the pedal up to the edge of the platform. The brake pedals should have return springs also.
TM Tractor at the bottom of the page has new springs, if any are gone.
Each pedal should have a spring.

If the clutch pedal base pivot is frozen, lube it with penetrating oil and soak it loose.
Usually the clutch pedal base will pull out of the housing about 1/4", that is helpful for getting penetrating oil into the base.
Keep soaking the base pivot, and keep working the pedal down and up.
When the pedal is free moving at the base, oil the base with motor oil, and push the pedal back in the housing.
Below are pics from TM Tractor.
The 1st pic shows the 1st style of clutch pedal.
The 2nd pic shows the 2nd style of clutch pedal.
The 3rd pic shows the pedal base, there is a long hole made in the housing, about 2/3 of the shiny part contacts in the hole. The 1/3 on the left of the pic is through the hole.
There is a length of the base to work oil into. :)
Attachments
Cub clutch pedal 3.jpg
Cub clutch pedal 4.jpg
Cub clutch pedal.jpg

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Glen
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Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby Glen » Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:55 am

I don't know if you have any interest in this, but since you have restored the Cub, here is some wiring info.

The battery cable is supposed to go up the edge of the dash, and forward under the right side of the hood, held up with 4 metal clips, and then down to the starter, going between the magneto cap and the oil filter housing.
The end of the cable at the starter switch is facing about straight to the right as it goes on the switch post.
The 4 clips hold the wiring harness also.
Then the cable doesn't get caught on branches or things under the tractor.

Below are pages from the 1955 Cub operator's manual showing the cable routing in the center pic on the 1st page.
The numbers on the 1st page are explained on the 2nd page.
A 1955 Cub has the voltage regulator system, so don't use the wiring for that on a cutout or Relay, IH called it, system. The battery cables and wiring harness were in the same places though, except for the wires at the voltage regulator. The Relay is on top of the generator.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2049.jpg

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... e%2050.jpg

Below is a listing from TM Tractor for the battery cable clip for the lower side of the dash, if yours is gone. The cable and rear light wire go in it. There are pics on the page showing where it goes.
It is number 12 in the parts manual pic.

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/el/522fp.htm

TM Tractor doesn't sell clips 13 and 14 in the pic, if yours are gone, but people on here have made them from sheet metal. The clips on my Cub are about 3/4" wide.

When putting it together, bend the battery cable so it doesn't rub on the clutch pedal. :)
Last edited by Glen on Wed Jan 06, 2021 1:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby Gary Dotson » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:11 am

Clutch pedal pivot rusting / seizing where it enters the torque tube, is a very common issue, on Cubs that have been setting. Soak well with PB Blaster and get the pedal moving, a bit. Then a little bit more, keep soaking and working. I've never seen a pressure plate seize to the point that the fingers would not move and the clutch plate rusting to the flywheel would not prevent the pedal from moving.

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Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby Dale Finch » Tue Jan 05, 2021 9:27 am

I agree with spraying liberally with PB Blaster (or equivalent penitrating oil). Work the pedal hard, even if it only moves micro amounts. Move/spray/move/spray...etc. Tedious, but if this is your problem, then this is your solution.

One addition to what Glen said above regarding your battery cable...there is supposed to be a "wrap-around" clip that clamps around the battery cable and taillight wire and wedges between the pedal and clutch housing to prevent rubbing against the cable by the clutch pedal. I have seen the sparks fly when the insulation has been rubbed away and shorts out!! :big what:
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Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby Gary Dotson » Wed Jan 06, 2021 8:47 am

One more thing to try: Loosen the pedal adjusting bolt and move the pedal downward to the bottom of the adjustment slot and retighten the bolt. The pedal should return to the top via the return spring but if not, try to pull the pedal up by hand. If you can move the pedal, with little effort, look to the pressure plate, if not, the the pedal pivot is frozen.

WDuggan
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Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub 1947 and several smaller cub cadets..original, 70, 105, 122, 782

Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby WDuggan » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:49 pm

Thanks so much. All this information has been really, really helpful. I disconnected it at the bell housing and cannot move the pedal at the pivot base so I am not able to engaged the clutch link rod at all. So the pedal at the pivot base is frozen up solid.

I disconnected the rear brakes and been spraying with PB and started to drive out the brake and will continue spraying. I'll take some pictures tomorrow but making slow process.

Can you help me understand how the clutch pivot arm is connected to the link rod? That part is not clear from the pictures and diagram. Not having taken it apart it is a mystery to me how the rod connects to the link inside and pushes on the throw out bearing.

Thanks for the help with the battery cable. I also broke the springs for the clutch and brake as they were pretty rusty. Slow progress and the pictures really help.

Thank you all.
Last edited by WDuggan on Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

WDuggan
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:34 am
Zip Code: 01742
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub 1947 and several smaller cub cadets..original, 70, 105, 122, 782

Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby WDuggan » Wed Jan 06, 2021 10:55 pm

I tried that, thank you. And it seems like the pivot base is frozen solid. Thank you

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Glen
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Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby Glen » Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:14 pm

Hi,
I think you meant how does the clutch pedal base connect to the rod inside the clutch housing.

There is a part that clamps onto the left side of the base in the pic above, and the rod connects to it.
The part is in the parts manual pic above, it's called a lever, it is number 4 in the pic.
It bolts to the base, and holds the base in the housing.
As I remember, the bolt is accessed from the rear of the clutch housing after removing the housing from the transmission.
Below is a pic from TM Tractor, it is upside down in the pic.

Below is a listing from TM Tractor for a new clutch pedal spring, the brakes use the same IH part number spring.
It is good to paint them before putting them on, if they are bare metal, they will probably rust. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/cl/864fp.htm
Attachments
Cub clutch pedal lever .jpg

WDuggan
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:34 am
Zip Code: 01742
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub 1947 and several smaller cub cadets..original, 70, 105, 122, 782

Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby WDuggan » Thu Jan 07, 2021 7:17 pm

Hi Glen,
Thank you. This makes sense. It has to be accessed from the rear after removing the transmission. I saw the picture but did not relate the assembly in the rectangle to this component. Thanks. I think I'll keep applying PB to the area until I can get it free. Thanks for the advice on the springs too. Once I get the pedal working I can get the harness and battery cables in place. One small step at a time. Thank you for your detailed help.

WDuggan
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:34 am
Zip Code: 01742
Tractors Owned: Farmall Cub 1947 and several smaller cub cadets..original, 70, 105, 122, 782

Re: Cub Clutch pedal stuck - any suggestions

Postby WDuggan » Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:41 am

Hi,
After heat and pbrustbuster on/off for a few weeks it finally unfroze ! Thanks to everyone for the help. The combination of heat and PB helped. I also used a small wire brush on a rod to insert. Glad this freed up. I finally got everything cleaned, wire brushed and put back together with never seize and replaced the springs. Good as new and just took it out in the snow. All Good. Again, thanks so much for all the advice. Now I need to route the batter cable and do some other electrical work. I recently purchased dog ears but there seems like no place to put them. I'll create another post for help but just wanted to say it worked and it freed up and show my appreciation.


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