Time for TLC on Workhorse

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k hutchins
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Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby k hutchins » Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:39 pm

Eugene, all of the fingers have about the same amount of wear, and Glen they're all smooth as glass. I mean this it the first time l've done anything with the clutch, and other than the coating of grime it looks pretty pristine compared to pics of others l've seen on here.
Glen l already purchased a new gasket in anticipation of this job, but thanks for the info.
What does everyone suggest as a gasket sealer, or do l even need one?

Glen, the center pipe is clean, l just had some "debri" on the bottom screen and thought while l had it off l'd clean the interior. When you say kerosene, could l use diesel fuel? Other wise l'm not sure where to get kerosene. I can get lamp oil at TSC (the t'shirt co.) but l'm not sure about actual kerosene. The breather pipe to the block was also clean. I hooked it up to my compressor expecting to have gunk flying out but got nothing.

By the way, the metal plate at the front bottm of the bell housing is where the oil always ran from, and it was fairly saturated with oil whe l removed it.

Thanks again for any input.
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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Glen
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Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby Glen » Sun Nov 08, 2020 8:14 pm

It sounds like the pressure plate fingers are good.

I would say the sealer helps prevent the oil pan gasket from seeping over time.

Permatex Aviation Form A Gasket works well. It is a non hardening liquid. They sell it a NAPA in my area.
It has a small brush made on the lid, unless they changed them.
If you buy one, stir it before using, it settles some in the bottom of the can sitting.
Below is a pic.
You can use it for the head bolt threads also, they need sealer. The bolt holes go into the engine water jacket.

Yes, diesel is ok for cleaning the air cleaner. The operator's manual says kerosene.
People on here have said they used diesel.

The clutch housing has a drain hole at the front, it might be plugged.
I think IH might not have put the hole in at the beginning of Cubs, so your Cub might not have it.
I'm not sure when they began putting the hole in.
Below is a pic from TM Tractor. :)
Attachments
Cub Permatex.jpg
Cub Permatex.jpg (8.51 KiB) Viewed 279 times
Cub clutch housing 5.jpg

k hutchins
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby k hutchins » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:28 pm

Since today was not great for hunting (45 mph wind with thunder storms) l decided to put some time in on Work Horse.
I got the block mounted to the stand and pulled off the front end. Trial and error, but got it done without breaking anything.
Once l got it seperated l turned the block on it's side to get to the oil pan. Who would have guessed that there was probably a pint or more of oil still in the pan that started running out of the valve area. Thank goodness for kitty litter. I finally got the pan pulled, and l'm more convinced than ever that my main oil leak was not from the rear seal (which l sent off to tst already) as suspected, but from the lack of an actual gasket on the pan. The whole pan was soaked with oil, inside and out. Never again will l go cheap and use just silicone instead of a gasket. It took almost a half hour to scrape all of the leftover residue off without causing damage.
The good news is that everything inside looks right and tight so l'm leaving well enough alone instead of trying to get the front pulley pulled. I know some on here will disagree with my decision but when l started this it was to solve the oil leak problem and tweak what needed tweaking. I don't believe the lower end needs anything.
I've been scraping off 72 yrs of build up and crud as l go. It's 1/2" thick in some spots SMH.
Steering needs shims, final drive pans need to be pulled and cleaned, and l need to pull the left final to replace the brake rod.
I'll post some pics in a day or two, my hands were too filthy to handle the phone today lol.

Cheers
Hutch
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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Glen
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Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby Glen » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:25 am

Hi,
If you have the engine in an engine stand, or sitting on the floor, it's a good time to check the crankshaft bearing clearances, with Plastigauge, then you will know what the clearances are.
Easier than laying under the Cub to do the same work.

If you hear knocking from the bottom area of the engine, one or more bearings could be worn and loose.
Knocking bearings usually eventually make a flat place on the crankshaft journal where they run.

The brake rods on Cubs were welded onto the brake bands up to mid 1953.
If it has a rod that has come loose from the band, it's probably easier replace it, then you get new lining too.
Below is a listing at TM Tractor for the band, it says it is a Case IH part. You can look at the pics. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/br/288fp.htm

k hutchins
10+ Years
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Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby k hutchins » Mon Nov 16, 2020 1:06 pm

Thanks Glen.
I have a question though. Can l use the plastigage without removing the crank. Since l'm not familiar with it l looked it up on line. From what l read it seems like you only have to remove the bottom part of the journal and bearing, then replace it after applying the plastigage to the recommended torque specs. That seems easy enough if l can find the stuff.

Another general question, since l'm not a mechanic. Is there a recommended torque for the oil pan bolts, and or a recommended thightening pattern? Corners to center, center out, or cross pattern? Since l believe that was the source of my main oil leak, l'd like to get it right with my new gasket.
Normally when tightening items with gaskets l only go a 1/3 to 1/2 turn past snug, if that makes sense to anyone. I also try to do a cross pattern to "equal" out the contact pressure.
Any ideas or suggestions are welcome.
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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Glen
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Location: Wa.

Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby Glen » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:00 pm

Hi,
They sell Plastigauge at NAPA in my area, it comes in a small package, the last I know of anyway.
There is red or green, depending on the size of clearances you are checking.
I think you need the green.

It is not hard to use. You don't remove the crankshaft to use it. It is intended for checking bearing clearances with the crankshaft in place.
The Cub service manual shows how to use it, beginning on page 1-34 for connecting rod bearings, and 1-50 for main bearings.
Section 1 is the engine section.
The crankshaft info begins on page 1-47.
Below is the Cub service manual. There is a table of contents beginning on page 1 of most sections. It makes it easy to use online, look in the contents for what you need.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

You have to remove each bearing cap, one at a time, to use the Plastigauge.
Before using it, inspect the bearing, they should all look good, not worn, or rough, or have grooves in the metal.
The crankshaft journal should look good, not rough or grooved.

To use the Plastigauge, wipe the oil off with a clean rag, put in a piece of Plastigage, cut to the width of the bearing, across the crankshaft journal, in the position in the manual, put the cap and bearing on, tighten the nuts, or bolts to their torque, 16 ft lbs for connection rod bearing nuts, and 55 ft lbs for main bearing bolts.
The torques are on page 1-9.
Then remove the cap, and see how much the Plastigauge is squished.
There is a picture on the package that you hold up against the squished Plastigauge and compare, or match it to the squished piece on the crankshaft, and it has numbers showing the clearance.
Don't turn the crankshaft while the Plastigauge is in a bearing with the cap on.

The service manual says all the bearings should have a clearance of .002 - .003"

The center main bearing controls the front to rear movement of the crankshaft.
It is a different bearing than the other 2, it has sides on the bearing.
Measure the end play of the crankshaft with a flat feeler gauge, the manual says it should be .004 - .008"
People have said on here they had noise from the end play being too much.
Every time you push the clutch pedal down pushes ahead on the crankshaft, and on one side of the center bearing sides, so it can wear over time.
Push the crankshaft forward or rearward, as far as it will go, before measuring the end play, so the gap is the biggest on 1 side, then measure the gap there.

If you write down the clearances of each one, you will have a record of it.
The Plastigauge wipes off after using it, you might have to scrape it slightly.
All the caps have to be put on one way, with the stamped in numbers on 1 side of them facing the camshaft side of the engine.
The lock tabs on the bearings have to be both on the same side.
Oil the bearing when putting it together the last time, after using the Plastigauge.

I would think after that many years the engine needs new bearings, but inspecting them is the best way to know.
If you want the engine to work without problems in the future, inspecting and measuring the bearing clearances with Plastigauge is a good check.
Below are pics from TM Tractor of Cub crankshaft journals. The crankshaft is not new. The journals are in ok condition, new or newly reground ones look better.
It looks like my post got long enough. :)
Attachments
Cub crankshaft.jpg
Cub crankshaft 3.jpg
Last edited by Glen on Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Glen
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Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby Glen » Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:45 pm

Before putting the oil pan on, you could check the top edge with a long straight edge, they sometimes get bent where the bolt holes are.
If the top edge is not flat, set the pan edge on a solid metal surface, and gently hammer it down so it is flat.

For the oil pan bolts, a comfortable pull on a 3/8" drive ratchet is good enough. The gasket might squish slightly. The oil pan will bend at the bolt holes tightening it too much.
I would use a thin coat of the liquid Form A Gasket I posted the pic of before putting it on.
Clean all oil off before putting the gasket in place.

Probably tighten some of the bolts on both sides some, going from side to side, then the ends. Try to keep the tightening even.

Clean the oil intake screen while the oil pan is off.

Gary Dotson
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Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby Gary Dotson » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:39 am

Plastigauge is available in several sizes. Grn.=.001-.003, red= .002 - .006, blue = .004- .009, yellow = 009 - .020 and probably some others. Numbers are in inches. For your needs, you should have green and red on hand.

Gary Dotson
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Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby Gary Dotson » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:43 am

I forgot to mention that it should be available at any auto parts store and is sold under many brand names. No matter the name on the sleeve, it's all the same.

k hutchins
10+ Years
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Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby k hutchins » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:16 pm

Thank you Glen and Gary
Very good information from both of you gentlemen. Esp where to find the specs l need to check the journals and bearing ware.
I stopped at one of my local auto parts stores today and asked for plastigage and 2 clerks just gave me curious looks. One then checked his phone, then the in store computer only to find that they normally care it but were out of stock SMH. They should have it in tomorrow or the next day.
I was also picking the brain of a master mechanic that told me if l do decide to put in new bearings, l may not need to pull the crank or the front pulley to do it. We'll see when we get that far.

Next question

20201117_131030.jpg
This is an end pic of my drive/crank pulley. I don't see a bolt in the center holding it to the shaft.


I haven't looked thoroughly, but l didn't see a bolt in the center holding it to the shaft. Is there one or is it strickly a friction fit with keyway?
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

Bob McCarty
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Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Nov 17, 2020 1:36 pm

No center bolt, a tight friction grip with a key. There are several "how to's" with different pulling tools to avoid breaking a flange on the pulley.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

k hutchins
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby k hutchins » Tue Nov 17, 2020 5:49 pm

I've seen some of them Bob. I have a large wheel puller, but no bearing seperator. I'm hoping that l won't need to pull it, but if l do l'll find the proper items l need.
In one how to it talks about using a bolt with the head rounded and a counter sink drilled into the center of the head. Since there are no threads in the end of the shaft l'm assuming the bolt just slides in to act as a plug.
I'll review the info provided by Glen, check my plastigage results then make that call.

Thank you all for your input.
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:

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Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby Eugene » Tue Nov 17, 2020 6:53 pm

k hutchins wrote:Where to find the specs l need to check the journals and bearing ware.
Service manual
I stopped at one of my local auto parts stores today and asked for plastigage and 2 clerks just gave me curious looks. One then checked his phone, then the in store computer only to find that they normally care it but were out of stock.
Time to utilize another auto parts store.
I was also picking the brain of a master mechanic that told me if l do decide to put in new bearings, l may not need to pull the crank or the front pulley to do it.
You can roll out the upper half of the main bearings. No need to remove the crankshaft.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Glen
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Location: Wa.

Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby Glen » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:12 pm

Hi,
They have said on here that Cub crankshafts have threads in the front end.
You could clean out the hole in yours and see if it has threads. Use a good light to see in it.
It's possible IH didn't have threads until later, I'm not sure.
They don't use a bolt to hold the pulley on, it is supposed to be a tight fit on the crankshaft.
Some of them are very tight, people have said on here.

People use the threads for putting the pulley on again, you can use threaded rod, turn it fully into the threads, then use a nut and washers in the front of the pulley, and turn the nut to pull the pulley on.
I think there is a How To for that, or else it was in a post someone made.

If the crankshaft journals are still in good condition, and not worn, you can put in new bearings without removing the crankshaft.
The top half of the main bearings can be turned so they come out, they just follow the journal shape and come out. They have to turn one direction, the tang prevents the bearing half from turning one direction.
You shouldn't have to remove the crankshaft unless something is wrong with it, and it needs regrinding.
If the front oil seal doesn't leak, and you don't want to replace it, the pulley doesn't need removing.

The original IH bearings usually have an IH stamped in them, on the back side, and the size, standard is STD, I think.
IH used to sell .002 undersize, if the crankshaft is worn slightly. I'm not sure if they still have them. :)

k hutchins
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 631
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:48 pm
Zip Code: 48843
Tractors Owned: 1948 Farmall Cub
193 plow
1948 snow/grading blade
Woods 59 C3
Cub 144 cultivator
Cub 22 mower
Cub 172 one row planter
Original manuals for all the above
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Time for TLC on Workhorse

Postby k hutchins » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:06 pm

Finally got some time to "enclose" my work area in my garage to continue working. It got a little cool here and there's no heat in the garage. Plastigage says it works best at room temp, so had to tarp off an area that l can warm with a space heater.
I did pull apart the crankshaft journals and this is pretty much what l found.
20201122_142702.jpg
The line you see is from the oil channel. It's actually smooth running my finger acrossed it.

20201122_142445.jpg
All smooth and looks in good shape
20201122_142550.jpg
This is what's printed on the backside of the bearing.


This was #3, 1 & 2 were the same condition. No sign of excess wear, and everything is tight.
Tomorrow l hope to get everything warm enough to plastigage.
Why is there never enough time to do the job right, but always enough time to do it over. :?:


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