Clutch pedal with internal rod

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Glen
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Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
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Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby Glen » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:04 pm

Hi,
I guess you meant there is play when you take the small yoke off the throwout bearing holder.
If the holder moves side to side, or up and down much, no, it shouldn't be loose.
The holes can wear in the holder, and the long pin at the top of the holder can wear.
The holder should be centered in one position so the bearing pushes on the pressure plate fingers.

Evidently someone has changed something on the Cub, it came with the newer adjustment parts, IH's info says. Someone might have put in a rod that is too short.
Below are pics of the rods from TM Tractor.
The 1st page shows the 1st style of rod.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gcl/rod1_001.htm

The 2nd page shows the 2nd style of rod.

http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gcl/rod2_001.htm

If the transmission shifts normally into all gears when the engine is off, the shifter is not causing any problem.

It is normal for a Cub engine to slow slightly when you push the clutch pedal down, the throwout bearing is solid, it doesn't turn, so there is a little friction when it pushes on the fingers.

I don't know what is wrong with it without being there to see it.
If you have to split the Cub to fix it, I would change the clutch pedal, internal rod, and throwout bearing holder to the newer style.
But you would have to split the Cub at the transmission too, so the clutch housing would be off. The bolt for the clamp that holds the clutch pedal in has to be reached from the rear of the clutch housing, I think.
The clamp, or Lever, in the parts manual pic, is number 4 in the 1st page below.
JP Tractor Salvage at the bottom of the page might have the parts.

Below are pages from the Cub parts manual, you can look at which parts are different.
You don't need part number 23 in the pic. :)

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-04.jpg

http://www.farmallcub.info/manuals/cub_ ... 007-05.jpg

rtruck200826@aol.com
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Zip Code: 44639
Tractors Owned: 1959 Country Squire. 1957 RJ35, 1959 RJ59, 1960 550 & 400, 1961 701, 2-1963 633, 1964 34R, 704, 1054, 1966 856, 1967 657, 1257, 1970 Raider 10, 1973 10hp, 1978 C-161 Twin, 1977 D200, 1986 417-8, 1995 520H, 2004 315-8. 1964 Jacobsen Chief, 1970 S17 Speedex.

Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby rtruck200826@aol.com » Fri Jun 26, 2020 1:35 pm

The holder holes are not deformed and I do have the 1st style rod from the yoke end with the threads at the bearing. The bearing itself doesn't fit snug on the driveshaft. Guessing it has a big hole not touching the shaft. Even if the rod was too short, makes no difference because I screw the yoke out too far and it will not line up to put the pin in. That is when the yoke has about 1/4 to 5/16 of threaded rod. So than I screwed it back on a few threads to get pin in and far enough to have the 1/8 clearance. Guess I am confused on the part about clutch pedal movement. Is it supposed to hit the stop block or only when it needs adjustment? And even if the pedal hits the stop block with everything working right the driveshaft should still stop turning am I assuming correctly? I have seen the pics of proper measurements of free play to engagement. I am just assuming it shouldn't be hitting the stop block with proper adjustment.Eventually I will have to split the the motor to replace the main seal and can see if there is a clutch pad left.

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Glen
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Tractors Owned: 1956 Farmall Cub with Fast Hitch, F-11 plow, Disc, Cultivator, Cub-22 mower
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Wa.

Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby Glen » Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:30 pm

Hi,
The hole in the throwout bearing is bigger than the clutch shaft, the bearing doesn't fit snug on the shaft.
Some cars and trucks have a surface that the bearing fits on, but it is mounted to the transmission, the input shaft goes through the surface.
That is why the bearing holder needs to not have worn holes, so the holder stays in the right position.
Good that yours is not worn.

The normal travel of the clutch pedal is from the platform, down to the stop made into the clutch housing.
You should push it fully down when you want to stop, or shift into gear.
The clutch shaft should stop turning whenever you push the pedal down to the stop.
The clutches may vary some, usually they start engaging when the pedal is about 1"- 2" above the stop.

There should be about 1 3/16" of free play at the top of the pedal travel, measured at the surface where you put your foot.
The operator's manual says if you set the pedal free play, it will automatically have the 1/8" clearance between the throwout bearing, and the fingers.

There should be return springs on all 3 pedals, under the platform, to hold them up to the platform.
If the spring is gone, the pedal won't have any free play, it would go down until the throwout bearing was rubbing on the fingers.

The clutch pedal should move freely at the top of it's travel, except for the pull of the return spring.
Sometimes the pedal base gets tight in the housing from no lube, then it needs oiling and freeing up.

Below is a listing at TM Tractor for a new clutch disc, they don't have a pic of it of the edge, showing the thickness. There were other styles of lining, some are flat, not grooved. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/cl/521fp.htm

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Rick Spivey
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Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby Rick Spivey » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:48 am

It almost sounds like your drive shaft is binding in the pilot bushing, so it never stops turning. That is usually what causes grinding when trying to go into gear from neutral. You might see if it will spin down if you wait 3-4 seconds, but some bind hard enough that they will not stop on their own. If you can engage the PTO while not running (you may have to rock it by hand), then you could confirm whether your driveshaft stops turning when the clutch is pushed in. A binding shaft might be able to be fixed with some lubricant sprayed into the center area, or oil dripped down the shaft while on a downhill incline. It could be caused by a dry bushing, or by a bushing that is too tight, or by a bent driveshaft. The latter two require splitting to correct.
Rick Spivey
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rtruck200826@aol.com
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 10:25 pm
Zip Code: 44639
Tractors Owned: 1959 Country Squire. 1957 RJ35, 1959 RJ59, 1960 550 & 400, 1961 701, 2-1963 633, 1964 34R, 704, 1054, 1966 856, 1967 657, 1257, 1970 Raider 10, 1973 10hp, 1978 C-161 Twin, 1977 D200, 1986 417-8, 1995 520H, 2004 315-8. 1964 Jacobsen Chief, 1970 S17 Speedex.

Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby rtruck200826@aol.com » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:27 pm

Glen Thank You for confirming what I was trying to figure out. The springs are all newer. Great information and just what I need to help me understand this system.
Rick that gives me a new avenue to checkout, every little bit of info helps. Could I get to that bushing if I take off the gear shifter cover? Thank you for every one's help. I will post results but it maybe a few weeks before I can get back under that Cub.

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Glen
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Location: Wa.

Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby Glen » Sat Jun 27, 2020 6:55 pm

Hi,
Rick is talking about the clutch shaft pilot bushing, it is in the rear of the engine crankshaft, at the flywheel.
You get to it through the hand hole, under the clutch.
It is sort hard to see it with the tractor assembled.

rtruck200826@aol.com
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 10:25 pm
Zip Code: 44639
Tractors Owned: 1959 Country Squire. 1957 RJ35, 1959 RJ59, 1960 550 & 400, 1961 701, 2-1963 633, 1964 34R, 704, 1054, 1966 856, 1967 657, 1257, 1970 Raider 10, 1973 10hp, 1978 C-161 Twin, 1977 D200, 1986 417-8, 1995 520H, 2004 315-8. 1964 Jacobsen Chief, 1970 S17 Speedex.

Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby rtruck200826@aol.com » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:06 am

Copy, just read up on a pilot bushing, understand what Rick is talking about now. From what I read and knowing what is happening I am willing to bet that is my issue. I will try the oil drip first but am sure a split is coming. Problem is we are going to be moving and it could be a year before I can split.

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Don McCombs
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Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Jun 28, 2020 7:18 am

If it fits with the timing of your move, bring the tractor to The Cub Tug in Somerset, OH the end of July. It will leave running like a top.
Don McCombs
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rtruck200826@aol.com
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 10:25 pm
Zip Code: 44639
Tractors Owned: 1959 Country Squire. 1957 RJ35, 1959 RJ59, 1960 550 & 400, 1961 701, 2-1963 633, 1964 34R, 704, 1054, 1966 856, 1967 657, 1257, 1970 Raider 10, 1973 10hp, 1978 C-161 Twin, 1977 D200, 1986 417-8, 1995 520H, 2004 315-8. 1964 Jacobsen Chief, 1970 S17 Speedex.

Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby rtruck200826@aol.com » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:24 am

That sounds interesting, there's a team that would work with me to replace main seal and pilot bushing? Assuming parts are there.

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Don McCombs
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1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake

Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby Don McCombs » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:41 am

I guess you could loosely call it “a team”. :D But, yes, there will be folks there to provide guidance and assistance to you. Better than being on your own. You would need to bring all parts and supplies with you. Tools and workspace are typically available on-site.
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Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby staninlowerAL » Sun Jun 28, 2020 8:48 am

rtruck200826@aol.com wrote:That sounds interesting, there's a team that would work with me to replace main seal and pilot bushing? Assuming parts are there.

The usual operation is bring your parts and the problem, the attending group will assist with the repairs. Take a look at some of the activities at past Cubfests posted elsewhere on this forum. Here's a link to the 2020 DSCF, one of them: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=106627#p845453 (Don beat me to the posting while I was searching for the link.)

rtruck200826@aol.com
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Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 10:25 pm
Zip Code: 44639
Tractors Owned: 1959 Country Squire. 1957 RJ35, 1959 RJ59, 1960 550 & 400, 1961 701, 2-1963 633, 1964 34R, 704, 1054, 1966 856, 1967 657, 1257, 1970 Raider 10, 1973 10hp, 1978 C-161 Twin, 1977 D200, 1986 417-8, 1995 520H, 2004 315-8. 1964 Jacobsen Chief, 1970 S17 Speedex.

Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby rtruck200826@aol.com » Sun Jun 28, 2020 9:41 am

So this is July 31-Aug 1? I am only 1-1/2 hour away from Somerset. Could this project be done in one day? Do I need to make a reservation for a work station? Since I would split the Cub. I would replace clutch pad, pilot bushing, & rear seal. Should I be getting other parts while this is apart? I seen the seal at TM may not fit just right on this 48, should I be concerned or will the silicon work just fine? Or is there another source for the main seal? I am off work those 2 days so I may make this project work.

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Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby Dale Finch » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:00 am

If you plan to replace the rear seal, it is strongly recommended to get a replacement from Tim (forum name tst). He machines the old retainer for a larger outer diameter seal. Usually you send him your old retainer, but you might just pay a deposit until you have removed yours, then ship it to him later.
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Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby Bob McCarty » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:05 am

viewtopic.php?f=223&t=107911 Be aware that Sat. afternoon is occupied with the "Tug" (Cub tractor pull), so noone is in the shop at that time. You'll need the gasket for the retainer. If the oil pan hasn't been dropped and cleaned, you might want to bring that gasket too.
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rtruck200826@aol.com
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri May 08, 2020 10:25 pm
Zip Code: 44639
Tractors Owned: 1959 Country Squire. 1957 RJ35, 1959 RJ59, 1960 550 & 400, 1961 701, 2-1963 633, 1964 34R, 704, 1054, 1966 856, 1967 657, 1257, 1970 Raider 10, 1973 10hp, 1978 C-161 Twin, 1977 D200, 1986 417-8, 1995 520H, 2004 315-8. 1964 Jacobsen Chief, 1970 S17 Speedex.

Re: Clutch pedal with internal rod

Postby rtruck200826@aol.com » Sun Jun 28, 2020 10:23 am

Actually I have a better oil pan to put on. The one on now was patched with fiberglass. So I will add oil pan gasket to list. Will have to check with Tim. Seen his post. I probably need a ring job also but can do that at home, at least this splitting job would be out of the way. On the same note she hand crank starts easy, I think she just needs worked a little and those rings maybe fine. I have been spraying in Seafoam when I have her running.


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