Slow cranking with clutch depressed

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BSFlyBoy
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Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby BSFlyBoy » Mon Jun 08, 2020 7:56 am

I just purchased my first Cub, it's a 1955 with the hydraulic, a sickle mower and just the draw bar in back. Also, it has a relatively new battery and is still six volts. Trying to get an idea what might be happening. When I start the engine it won't hardly crank if the transmission is in gear and I have the clutch pedal pushed in. I've also notice that the engine seems to slow when I put it into gear.

I'm just starting to go through all of the suggestions from the thread about what to do when you bring home a new Cub, but curious if this is a normal or known issue?

Thanks

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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Rick Spivey » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:03 am

It is normal for the throw-out bearing to place some drag on the engine; however, yours sounds somewhat excessive. Does the driveshaft seem to be spinning even after the clutch is pushed in? You could tell by either grinding gears, or engage the PTO and watch the shaft. If yes, you may have a pilot bushing that is too tight on the shaft, or the shaft may be bowed somewhat. More likely is that the throw-out bearing needs some grease. You can grease it from the hand-hole if it was installed correctly (zerk pointed down), and you might could smear some grease directly on the face of the bearing. Use "cheap" grease that will allow the oil to separate, the bearing is a graphite "puck", and the oil impregnates it over time. Sometimes those bearings get installed without being greased properly, and will wear excessively fast. The graphic should extend about 1/4" beyond the front of the bearing housing unless worn substantially.
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BSFlyBoy
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:45 am
Zip Code: 64029
Tractors Owned: 1955 Cub
JD 870
LS M352HC

Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby BSFlyBoy » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:17 am

Thanks for the quick reply, Rick. I get the feeling it has something to do with the throw-out bearing as well. Drive shaft does not seem to keep spinning. When I press the clutch pedal, it takes a couple of second before I can put it in gear, but no related issues when engaging the PTO.
Noobe question, where is the hand-hole that you mentioned?

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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Barnyard » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:27 am

It is best to put the tractor in neutral and not press the clutch when starting. That way there is no drag.
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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Don McCombs » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:36 am

BSFlyBoy wrote:Noobe question, where is the hand-hole that you mentioned?

It is the round opening, about 4 inches In diameter, in the clutch area of the torque tube. It may or may not have a round cover on it.
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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Stanton » Mon Jun 08, 2020 8:39 am

I agree with Barnyard; gear shift in neutral, foot off the clutch. There are those who do depress the clutch, but why take a chance for your foot to slip?

Hand hole that Rick mentioned is seen here on TM Tractor's page (one of our sponsors), looking at the bottom of the clutch housing:
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Full catalog of pics on TM's site here: http://www.tmtractor.com/tm-tractor/gcl/housing_001.htm
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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:29 am

BSFlyBoy wrote:. . . it won't hardly crank if the transmission is in gear and I have the clutch pedal pushed in. . . .

What happens if you take the transmission out of gear and have the pedal down? If it is about the same as when it is in gear, it is mostly the throwout bearing. If it turns faster, then it is a clutch that isn't completely disengaging, pilot bushing problem, etc.

Note that the problem may be electrical. You may have a weak battery (needs charging) or undersized battery cables. You may have poor electrical connections at either end of the battery cables or anywhere in the ground connections. It may be cranking slowly regardless of the clutch but is much more obvious with the added drag from the throwout bearing.

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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby ricky racer » Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:58 am

What the others have said is all true. There is always drag due the Throw-Out-Bearing when the clutch is depressed. Leaving it in Neutral when starting it is what most of us do. However, if your tractor won't crank over with with the clutch depressed, you've got another issue. I'd start by pulling the battery cables and making sure they are clean and tightened securely to the posts. Break the ground cable loose where it attaches to the tractor frame and make sure it it clean and free of paint or rust that may inhibit a good ground. Break the positive battery cable loose at the starter and do the same thing. If that doesn't help it crank over with more authority, you may want to pull the starter off and sand the areas where the starter contacts the bell housing to assure a good ground. Six volt systems work great if you have good heavy cables with good connections and grounds. Another thing to check is the condition of the cables. A lot of the time there is corrosion within the cable itself usually near the battery clamp or the crimped connection at the starter. If your cables show much corrosion, you may want to replace the cables, however the cables need to be heavy gauge, not like the 12 volt cables you'll find at most auto parts stores. Six volt systems use a lower voltage but higher amperage which requires heavy gauge cables. Most of us use welding cable and solder a ring connector on for the starter end and attach the battery clamp to the other end.

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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Jim Becker » Mon Jun 08, 2020 11:09 am

Keep in mind that cranking speed on a Cub was never like what you experience with a late model car. It isn't going to sound like a dentist drill. To help get us on the same page as to what slow cranking is vs. normal, click on this:

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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Waif » Mon Jun 08, 2020 5:43 pm

Where'd my post go?

Short version 2nd attempt , maybe it will post and or not get deleted.
Put it in Neutral to start. A good safety habit , and less resistance.

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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Glen » Mon Jun 08, 2020 6:57 pm

Hi,
It is normal for the engine to turn slower when you push the clutch pedal down when trying to start a Cub, the throwout bearing doesn't turn, it is solid, so it makes some resistance.
Greasing it's grease fitting, and putting a little grease on the front surface of it, like was said above, can help reduce the resistance.

The Cub operator's manual can help you learn about maintenance that the Cub needs.

Below is the 1955 Cub operator's manual. The experts on here recommend people read it. It has lots of info about operation, maintenance, and lubrication. There is a table of contents on page 1.
It shows how Cubs originally looked in it. The lube section begins on page 14.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

This manual shows the electrical system that a 1955 Cub originally had.
Cubs made before mid 1964 originally had 6 volt, positive ground electrical systems.

There is a pic of the clutch showing the hand hole, and the parts inside the clutch housing, on page 45 of the manual. The page tells about setting the clutch pedal free play.
Use a good light to see up in the clutch housing through the hand hole. It also helps if the Cub is inside a building, so you aren't looking up at the bright sky.

The Touch Control fluid talked about in the manual was changed later to Case IH Hy-Tran fluid. It is sold at Case IH dealers.

I would check or change all the oils before using the Cub. Using it with low oil in a gear housing can damage the parts in the housing.
There are 3 separate gear housings, with 3 separate oil levels to check, in the rear area of a Cub, the transmission, and 2 final drives.

The transmissions in Cubs commonly get water in them, from rain, or condensation inside the housing over time.

There are 2 pages missing from the lubrication section in the 1955 manual above.
Below is the 1950 Cub operator's manual. Look on pages 19, 20 and 21 for the missing info. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html

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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Jun 09, 2020 11:07 am

Waif wrote:Where'd my post go? . . .

If you hit "submit" and there has been another post made since you hit "full editor" or since your previous display of the topic, the site can reply with a warning that there has been another post and give you a chance to edit your comment before it adds your post. If you don't notice the warning and go on to something else, your post will never get added.

You need to look at what is displayed back after you hit "submit" to make sure it took. I don't know if that is what happened to you. I've had it happen to me once in a while.

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Re: Slow cranking with clutch depressed

Postby Waif » Tue Jun 09, 2020 7:59 pm

Jim Becker wrote:
Waif wrote:Where'd my post go? . . .

If you hit "submit" and there has been another post made since you hit "full editor" or since your previous display of the topic, the site can reply with a warning that there has been another post and give you a chance to edit your comment before it adds your post. If you don't notice the warning and go on to something else, your post will never get added.

You need to look at what is displayed back after you hit "submit" to make sure it took. I don't know if that is what happened to you. I've had it happen to me once in a while.


Thank you kind Sir!

I've fumbled some by hitting preview I suspect and then leaving..

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