Belt Change

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halftonstude
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Belt Change

Postby halftonstude » Tue Oct 15, 2019 1:54 pm

So, during my restoration process (just rolled it out of the shop for the first time in 13 months... photo to follow) i knew i needed new belts for the generator and fan. so of course i read up on the wit and wisdom that is afforded to us users here on the forum. "could" be done with the hood on.... "well while the hood is off...." of course soon followed. Well i thought heck, a belt is a consumable. it wears out and needs to be replaced in the field... probably by the farmer. International would OF COURSE design the tractor to be able to do maintenance without a host of tools - hey you stop laughing this isn't funny!!! so i put the hood on... wired it up... stop laughing. yes i thought I could do it but alas I couldn't. there was no way i could move enough stuff out of the way to get that fan bearing high enough to clear the mount to get that big fat fan belt behind there. so, yes of course, i had to take off the hood... and the wiring, and if i had a nickel for every time i put that darn thing on thinkin that's it, that's the last time i'll have to take the hood off! So, i'm not looking for answers, just came here to moan a little about my belts... but they're on. have to futz with the regulator a bit the voltage is a little low. but it started within about 5 minutes, didn't have to mess with anything other than the mixture screw after it warmed up. timing was spot on with a 12v timing light (still 6v system but i pulled my truck next to it and grounded the two together so i could put the pickup on lead on cylinder 1 and power on the 12v truck. 16 degrees. idles at about 700 rpm, paint has started to darken on the exhaust manifold, need to change the oil soon, but here she is in all her glory. Astute readers will be quick to pick up there is no way this tractor could have run in this photo... there's no fuel line (yet) that was an earlier picture. Made a new fuel line - the PO used 5/16 brake line but flared the ends single flare and never sealed well. I didn't want to use compression so i made an 8mm bubble flare (5/16 is close enough to 8mm to fit in my metric bubble flare set) that seats very nicely and cleanly. Float still leaking on occasion even though i machined a new face to the float seat... we'll get it. since this photo was taken front weights are on, rears have to be painted still... painting the swinging drawbar assembly and will be pulling a rake next year to help a friend hay 100 acres. It would take all week for this little guy to sickle 100 acres, so i'll be happy pulling a rake! thank you all for your help during this restoration process, i think it came out just fine, i'm quite pleased with it.
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cub.jpg

Jim Becker
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Re: Belt Change

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:08 pm

halftonstude wrote:. . . there was no way i could move enough stuff out of the way to get that fan bearing high enough to clear the mount to get that big fat fan belt behind there. . . .

You install the belt by putting it over the fan blades (one at a time!), not by separating the fan hub from its mounting bracket.

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Re: Belt Change

Postby Dale Finch » Tue Oct 15, 2019 2:52 pm

"NOW YOU TELL ME" !!!! :roll:

Barnyard actually made a neat HOW TO video...sorry you didn't see it. You will be the "hood removal speed king"!! :lol:
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halftonstude
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Re: Belt Change

Postby halftonstude » Tue Oct 15, 2019 4:50 pm

Ok Jim, there is the way of putting the fan belt over each of the fan blades one at a time... i could foresee doing that after i couldn't move the stud out of the way of the mount. But how do you put the generator belt on the same way, it's not big enough to go over more than one blade at a time? I'll be looking for the video shortly but sitting at the computer searching with dirty fingers... as dale said i've gotten pretty good at removing it without scratching any paint lol! lots of cardboard tubes over the exhaust and intake, rags over the gauge panel, paper bags over the radiator supports... it's part of the normal go of things around here lol!

Ol Timey Farming LLC
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Re: Belt Change

Postby Ol Timey Farming LLC » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:04 pm


Jim Becker
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Re: Belt Change

Postby Jim Becker » Tue Oct 15, 2019 5:22 pm

The generator belts from some time in '53 on were slightly longer than the earlier ones. I know I have put the longer ones on over the fan blades. I don't recall actually doing it with the shorter ones. The video above is one of the longer ones. You can tell which you are dealing with by looking at the pulley sizes on the fan hub. Early generator drive pulley was smaller diameter than the fan belt pulley. The later ones were larger.

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Re: Belt Change

Postby Glen » Tue Oct 15, 2019 9:14 pm

Hi,
Below are pages from the 1949 Cub owner's manual, telling about removing the fan and generator belts.

The page below tells about the fan belt, on the right side of the page.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-27.jpg

The page below tells about the gen belt. This was when they used the smaller diameter gen drive pulley on the fan hub.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-36.jpg

The page below is from the 1955 Cub owner's manual, after IH changed to the bigger diameter gen drive pulley. It says to work the gen belt over the fan blades.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... age-41.jpg

IH changed to the larger diameter gen drive pulley in 1953, at Cub serial number 165153, Raymond Durban's database says.
Below are pics from TM Tractor of the 2 pulleys. :)
Attachments
Cub fan .jpg
Cub fan 3.jpg

halftonstude
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Re: Belt Change

Postby halftonstude » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:43 pm

Thanks Glen and Jim. Looking at the instructions on how to remove the generator belt, that's what ended up happening. things only seem to fit one way. hood had to come off, generator off, fan and hub loose and down then up into the recess in the fan housing... it only works one way, glad I didn't create more work for myself, thanks for the links! Now my new problem... an antifreeze drip from the carburetor..... (sigh)
c

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Re: Belt Change

Postby Slim140 » Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:59 pm

halftonstude wrote:Thanks Glen and Jim. Looking at the instructions on how to remove the generator belt, that's what ended up happening. things only seem to fit one way. hood had to come off, generator off, fan and hub loose and down then up into the recess in the fan housing... it only works one way, glad I didn't create more work for myself, thanks for the links! Now my new problem... an antifreeze drip from the carburetor..... (sigh)
c

If you have antifreeze dripping from the carb you must have hooked the water pump up wrong :lol: :lol: :lol:
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halftonstude
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Re: Belt Change

Postby halftonstude » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:02 pm

hardy har har har... that actually made me laugh! i'm sure (at least that's what i'm hoping) it's a manifold stud with not enough sealant on it. i'll keep my fingers crossed anyway...

Ol Timey Farming LLC
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Re: Belt Change

Postby Ol Timey Farming LLC » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:48 pm

are you sure its antifreeze? usually its the float sticking and gas thats dripping from the weep hole in bottom of carb. If your sure its water/antifreeze, then it most probably is an manifold bolt thats weeping and either needs a new bolt or just add some sealant to old bolt and reinstall. Just be careful and slow about taking old ones out as heat and time (rust) can make them stuck and hard to remove so don't force it. use lots of liquid wrench etc on them and see which ones look usable or need to be replaced. Good luck....

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Re: Belt Change

Postby Eugene » Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:59 pm

Since you have the hood off, remove the spark plugs. If you have antifreeze dripping from the carburetor, there will be antifreeze on top on a piston.

If you do have antifreeze dripping out of the carburetor, do not crank the engine over with spark plugs in place. Liquid on top of a piston may/could cause hydrostatic lock - damage the engine.
I have an excuse. CRS.

halftonstude
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Re: Belt Change

Postby halftonstude » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:08 pm

Hi Ol Timey. Am I sure it's antifreeze? Well, I'd say yes, I'm sure. Oil is brown, hydraulic fluid is clear, gasoline is mostly clear has a little blue tint to it, and antifreeze is green and thick and sweet. Side of the block is dry. oil pan is dry. head is dry. I know the float needle and seat don't close all the way, i machined a new surface on the seat and it held for a week or so, but is now dripping, so when i was trying to start it two days ago i smelled it was really rich even with the choke open just cranking (wouldn't start) so i pulled off the air cleaner hose and expected liquid, i expected gas because of the float, and a bunch of liquid came out, then it started to separate, and that's when i noticed the green. there's a drop on the bottom of the carb that's green. i was quite surprised myself. i'll put some more gasket sealer on the studs tonight. no concerns about removing them because i just completely restored this tractor, it only has an hour or so of runtime since i put it back together, the studs will come out nice and easy. they're brand new and i chased the threads in every hole before i put the thing back together.
IMG_1017.jpg
IMG_1016.jpg

that drip pan is right under the carb...
Thanks for thinking of other things to look out for, i'm not too proud to take something apart i already put together if i goofed!

As for the plugs there may not be coolant on a piston if the issue is one of the manifold studs leaking. Last I knew water didn't flow up hill, or was that something else that flows downhill.... Anyway i'd only expect coolant on a piston if the head or head gasket is leaking. It's been running fine, no white smoke. Tank isn't off at this point, but i can remove the plugs anyway and use my borescope down there jic. Normally I use this scope to look a the blades, nozzles, and combustion cans on the International Harvester turbines I maintain, but it's just sitting in the truck right now... waiting to be used. Hmmm i wonder if there's a forum for those turbines???
c

Ol Timey Farming LLC
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Re: Belt Change

Postby Ol Timey Farming LLC » Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:32 pm

What Eugine is referring to is if the block or head gasket is cracked, not sealing it could be water on pistons and then while turing it over the water flows out into manifold on compression or exhaust strokes. He is right that its best to pull plugs and confirm if water is in there or not as this may mean taking head off to see what/why its leaking. And if water is there it can't compress like air so it WILL destroy either pistons, head, block or rings. So check it before you try starting it again.

halftonstude
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Re: Belt Change

Postby halftonstude » Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:13 pm

Thanks ol timey, i'm quite familiar with hydraulic lock, and the damage that can result from attempting to compress a non-compressible fluid. If the problem were manifold studs there wouldn't be fluid in the cylinder, it wouldn't travel uphill. If it did and the engine did run, it would turn to steam and be gone by the time you looked into the plug hole. It would just seem odd that during the intake stroke anything in the intake manifold would be drawn into the cylinder and not remain in the intake manifold, and anything leaking out into the exhaust would be heated up and turned to steam and sent into the pipe. So if the engine has been run every day (which it has been for a few days after i completed the rebuild) a leak such as this wouldn't be visible - and it wasn't. What is different now is how the engine has been operated in the last few days - it's sat not running while i'm working on the regulator. While tuning, working on hydraulics etc etc, i've run it a bit every day to futz with it (if futz is even a word... but i'm sure most readers here have futzed with things on occasion) but over the course of the last couple days the engine has not run... so a very small leak that would not be noticeable at all if the engine is run regularly is now visible. Manifold studs are fine though - i pulled them, and inspected and re-sealed them... The manifold was damp and there was green moisture in the intake port between cylinders 3 and 4, and a camera shot into the plug hole of cylinder four confirms the culprit... head gasket.
IMG_1018.jpg
IMG_1021.jpg

Compression was ok before i started the rebuild so i don't think there's anything wrong with the head or block, but it looks like... once again... the hood is coming off (shooting for less than 3 minutes this time!!!!) so i can pull the head and replace the gasket and make another inspection. Such is the life of restoring old iron, but hey, it keeps me out of the bars and my wife knows exactly where i am by the sound of the dropping wrenches in the shop!!
Thanks for the words of encouragement and suggestions from the "been there done that's" group. This isn't my first rodeo, but it is the first time i've joined a forum of other like minded individuals who like this kind of hobby. My first engine rebuild was when i was 16; it was a 235 in a '53 chevy dump truck on the hay farm where I worked. I've restored hit and miss engines, throttle governed engines, railroad section cars, and even steam locomotives... and can still count the number of times i've taken all vehicles of mine to a mechanic on one hand since 1974. I'll never turn down advice from others who have gone before me, and thoroughly enjoy reading the replies to my posts. Imagine all this started with trying to change belts... Hood will have to wait till tomorrow, or maybe the weekend. last hay is already in, no need to pull a rake (my job with the cub now) until next year. Time to work on the plow and sickle... after i get the green out of cylinder number 4 :wink:
c


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