1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

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Jack
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Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
1955 International 300 Utility
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Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Jack » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:16 pm

57j2olds wrote:I wanted to take a moment to thank you all for your great posts.

I was able to change the trans fluid, which was a milky mess, with no issues. Engine oil was a no brainer.

So last night I decided to tackle the steering fluid.

I pulled the plug and what came out looked like black tar (and flowed like tar).

I left it drain over night. I then took some kerosene and put some on the fill hole to flush out more remnants of the tarry stuff. For sure it was not changed in many years.

Did I do any hard by pouring in the kerosene?
Do I replace with 80/90w?


Sorry for taking your post over
Circle of Safety Pine Meadows Farm :tractor:

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Glen
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Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Glen » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:27 pm

Hi,
There should be a washer above and below the small gear on the long shaft. The upper washer can't be removed without taking the steering wheel off, and sliding the part with the oil seal, and the washer up the shaft, and off the upper end.
The lower washer comes off the lower end, it may be the wrong thickness, or the gasket could be gone. The gasket is needed for the right spacing of the parts.
The lower washer can fall off, into the oil in the housing when you remove the upper steering shaft, be sure it is in place when reassembling.

Below are listings at TM Tractor for the parts, you can look at the pics. There are parts pics there showing where the parts go. :)

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/st/715fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/st/985fp.htm

http://www.tmtractor.com/new/st/458fp.htm

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Jack
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Posts: 821
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:14 am
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Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
1955 International 300 Utility
2018 JD loader/ backhoe
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Tionesta, PA.

Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Jack » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:06 am

Well, I just got done removing the steering shaft, and now I can see why when I tighten the bolts to the housing it leaked. And jammed up
There wasn't a gasket for one, and I did not see any thrust washer on either end of the worm.
I had a magnet fishing inside the housing but couldnt find any thrust washers laying in there.
I'm not sure if the magnet would locate copper or brass.
But anyway I had my fingers in searching and didn't find any. I'm thinking the PO had that apart and and didn't replace anything just put it back together, as nd sold it to me.
Thanks everyone
Circle of Safety Pine Meadows Farm :tractor:

Bob McCarty
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Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:24 am

The thrust washers are bronze, so non-magnetic. Also, they are about 1/4" thick. It would be unusual for the upper to be gone unless it was intentionally removed.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

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Jack
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Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
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2018 JD loader/ backhoe
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Location: Tionesta, PA.

Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Jack » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:31 am

Bob McCarty wrote:The thrust washers are bronze, so non-magnetic. Also, they are about 1/4" thick. It would be unusual for the upper to be gone unless it was intentionally removed.

I'm guessing they were intentionally removed, I cannot find them anywhere
Circle of Safety Pine Meadows Farm :tractor:

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Jack
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Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Jack » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:02 am

https://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx2 ... i5svr9.jpg
Is these the thrush washers? There not brass they are steel
Circle of Safety Pine Meadows Farm :tractor:

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Jack
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Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
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Location: Tionesta, PA.

Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Jack » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:18 am

Jack wrote:https://i762.photobucket.com/albums/xx270/junkman41/20190729_105212_zpsezi5svr9.jpg
Is these the thrush washers? There not brass they are steel


I relize that the thrust washers are on the shaft worm gear, how stupid do I feel,

I ordered new ones along with the seal and gasket
Circle of Safety Pine Meadows Farm :tractor:

Bob McCarty
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Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:55 am

Yes, that's them. All the ones I've seen were bronze, but IH may have switched to steel at some point.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

User avatar
Jack
10+ Years
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Posts: 821
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:14 am
Zip Code: 16353
Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
1955 International 300 Utility
2018 JD loader/ backhoe
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Tionesta, PA.

Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Jack » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:03 am

Bob McCarty wrote:Yes, that's them. All the ones I've seen were bronze, but IH may have switched to steel at some point.

Do I tap them off with a hammer and punch?
They seem to be on there pretty tight
Circle of Safety Pine Meadows Farm :tractor:

Bob McCarty
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Location: CO, Longmont

Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Bob McCarty » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:13 am

Hammer and punch will work. Measure their thickness first. Unless they are a lot thinner than 1/4", they probably don't need replacing. It is more common for the bronze bushings and washer inside the steering housing to wear, thin down and need replacement. There is a small shoulder on the shaft above the seal housing. The seal and thrust washer will be tight until they are past that point. If you replace the seal, make sure that area is smooth so you don't nick the new seal when sliding it on.
"We don't need to think more,
we need to think differently."
-Albert Einstein

User avatar
Jack
10+ Years
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Posts: 821
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:14 am
Zip Code: 16353
Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
1955 International 300 Utility
2018 JD loader/ backhoe
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Tionesta, PA.

Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Jack » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:16 am

:tractor:
Bob McCarty wrote:Hammer and punch will work. Measure their thickness first. Unless they are a lot thinner than 1/4", they probably don't need replacing. It is more common for the bronze bushings and washer inside the steering housing to wear, thin down and need replacement. There is a small shoulder on the shaft above the seal housing. The seal and thrust washer will be tight until they are past that point. If you replace the seal, make sure that area is smooth so you don't nick the new seal when sliding it on.

Thank you for all your help
Circle of Safety Pine Meadows Farm :tractor:

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Glen
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Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Glen » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Hi,
The reason it may be too tight when you tighten the 2 bolts could be because the gasket was not there at the cap. The cap goes down farther without the gasket, and makes the end play less, or tightens down farther on the gear and washers.
The washers it has may still be good, If they are tight on the shaft, and hard to remove, you could put it together with them first, and check the end play of the shaft. That is the play up and down.
There should be very little end play, but the shaft should turn freely.

Below is a page from the Cub service manual, it says .001" - .011" end play for the shaft. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... -03-02.jpg

Below is a page showing the shaft, gear, and washers in the top pic.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... -03-11.jpg

User avatar
Jack
10+ Years
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Posts: 821
Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:14 am
Zip Code: 16353
Tractors Owned: 1955 Farmall Cub
1955 International 300 Utility
2018 JD loader/ backhoe
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Tionesta, PA.

Re: 1953 Steering Fluid Change - Overall update

Postby Jack » Mon Jul 29, 2019 5:33 pm

Glen wrote:Hi,
The reason it may be too tight when you tighten the 2 bolts could be because the gasket was not there at the cap. The cap goes down farther without the gasket, and makes the end play less, or tightens down farther on the gear and washers.
The washers it has may still be good, If they are tight on the shaft, and hard to remove, you could put it together with them first, and check the end play of the shaft. That is the play up and down.
There should be very little end play, but the shaft should turn freely.

Below is a page from the Cub service manual, it says .001" - .011" end play for the shaft. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... -03-02.jpg

Below is a page showing the shaft, gear, and washers in the top pic.

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... -03-11.jpg


I put the original washers back on the shaft, they fit snug on the shaft, I did order new ones ,just in case,
Thank you
Circle of Safety Pine Meadows Farm :tractor:


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