Would this be the cause of my problem?

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ShawnAgne
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Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby ShawnAgne » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:48 pm

Prior to plowing and while plowing everythign was working great, then the hydraulics just quit. Here is how it is hooked up. Previous owner or Previous x2 or x3 lengthened the lift arm.

Image

Wondering since the longer arm is going to cause more torque on the pivot that the hydraulics have to turn and with the plow being down deep in the soil would that be possibly why it suddenly quit working?

Also talked with Dennis at Steiner and he was telling me if you fill the hydraulic fluid to full there is now place for it to expand when it warms up and this can cause issues also.

Just trying to figure out what happened after it was working so well.
Shawn Agne

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Glen
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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby Glen » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:14 pm

Hi,
When a Touch Control has too much weight for it to lift, it just makes a sound like it is working hard. Don't keep it doing that for long, move the lever back to where it isn't labored.
The drive gear could have come off the pump. Did you use the washer that you bend over one side of the shaft nut when you put the pump in, I remember you worked on the pump.

Fill the system to the filler plug hole, with the arms in the rear, or down position. The fluid rises in the system, as you move the arms to the rear. If you fill it with the arms ahead, it will have too much fluid. :)
Last edited by Glen on Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ShawnAgne
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1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby ShawnAgne » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:52 pm

Nope didn't loose the gear. Added more fluid it worked. Guessing it blew the oil seal that Shane did as there is more fluid in oil pan. Somthing caused the extra pressure.
Shawn Agne

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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby Slim140 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:54 pm

Do you still have the extra hydraulic stuff you added for your snow plow hooked to the hydraulic system?

You are building pressure somehow and it has to go somewhere.

You said your touch control block is leaking too, where is it leaking from?

You were passing fluid past your oring, you had a few thousandths taken off your pump shaft. I welded that up and turned it back to .500”. Bored your block and put in a seal. Something is causing to much pressure.
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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby Barnyard » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:59 pm

Bring it to the Bash the end of May and make it a project.
There are two ways to get enough Cubs. One is to continue to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.

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ShawnAgne
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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby ShawnAgne » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:51 pm

The bypass block is still on the tractor as is the valve which is hooked to the bypass but the valve isn't running anything. I have the pressure relieve on the valve turned down low enough it shouldn't be causing any issues just works the blade cylinder when it's attached.

The leak is off the back and between that and the dash. It is a slow leak and I don't always see it.

Checked the oil level and appears the hydraulic fluid all got dumped to the oil pan.
Shawn Agne

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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby Slim140 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:13 pm

I’m curious as to what’s making so much pressure that an oring nor a seal is holding up. I hate it leaked on you and your back at square one.
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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby Scrivet » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:00 am

ShawnAgne wrote:......
Also talked with Dennis at Steiner and he was telling me if you fill the hydraulic fluid to full there is now place for it to expand when it warms up and this can cause issues also. ..........
I don't know Dennis but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions. This one would make me not want to listen to much else Dennis has to say. I think a group of IH design engineers even in the 1940's would have thought of, and taken into consideration, the possibility that the hydraulic fluid might warm up. Unless this is a vague incomplete reference to what Glen has already posted?
Glen wrote:.....Fill the system to the filler plug hole, with the arms in the rear, or down position. The fluid rises in the system, as you move the arms to the rear. If you fill it with the arms ahead, it will have too much fluid. :)

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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby T-Mo » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:07 am

Scrivet wrote:
ShawnAgne wrote:......
Also talked with Dennis at Steiner and he was telling me if you fill the hydraulic fluid to full there is now place for it to expand when it warms up and this can cause issues also. ..........
I don't know Dennis but I guess everyone is entitled to their opinions. This one would make me not want to listen to much else Dennis has to say. I think a group of IH design engineers even in the 1940's would have thought of, and taken into consideration, the possibility that the hydraulic fluid might warm up. Unless this is a vague incomplete reference to what Glen has already posted?
Glen wrote:.....Fill the system to the filler plug hole, with the arms in the rear, or down position. The fluid rises in the system, as you move the arms to the rear. If you fill it with the arms ahead, it will have too much fluid. :)


Per the manual:

Sufficient air space is allowed above the fluid level to compensate for the pressure changes occurring during the operation of the system.

I'm sure that is what Dennis meant - I don't believe he was telling you not to fill it to the proper level, but not to overfill it. I don't think if you remove the plug to fill it, that it will overfill since the fluid will just run out of the plug, but.......

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ShawnAgne
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54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
1955 Farmall 100 (Thomas)
Woods L59 60"
A60 Leveling Blade
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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby ShawnAgne » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:55 am

Yes that is what he was saying in that you want to leave air space.

Was doing some calculations here at work so guessing I'm dimensioms. Assuming plow weighs 125, the lifting arm is 24" the arm that attaches yo the rod of the rockstar is 8" and the main piston that operates the rocjshaft is 1" diameter, lifting the plow is putting an additional 119 psi on the system. This not counting the wet heavy dirt on it and trying to pull it up through the ground.

Found a post from 2009 where a guy was lifting a 300lb test weight and it failed on 75th lift due to heat.

I was raising and lowering it at the end beginning of each pass so wondering if it was heat which caused expansion and then the extra 119psi of plow plus from the wet dirt?
Shawn Agne

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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby Crimson Tim » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:48 am

ShawnAgne wrote:Found a post from 2009 where a guy was lifting a 300lb test weight and it failed on 75th lift due to heat.


From that post, what constitutes “failed”? Blew past the seal like yours or something else? Can you link to that thread?



ShawnAgne wrote:I was raising and lowering it at the end beginning of each pass so wondering if it was heat which caused expansion and then the extra 119psi of plow plus from the wet dirt?


I have not run a plow before, so: do you have it set up as intended, but the only difference is that it is hooked to that extension instead of the original length lift arm? If so, you have reduced the leverage of the hydraulic system to 33% of what it was designed to be, but you’re lifting the plow 3x as far.
I think you need to add back in a mounting point on the lift rod back near the original location.

In short, yes, I think you are on the right track.

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ShawnAgne
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Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
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IH 3160 Mower Deck
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193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
1955 Farmall 100 (Thomas)
Woods L59 60"
A60 Leveling Blade
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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby ShawnAgne » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:59 am

Yes the plow is hooked up as originally intended aside from the extension doing the lifting.

The failure sighted in the 2009 thread was it just quit lifting but when he let everything cool off it lifted it again the next day.

Going to remove the extension but will take some grinding, what is the official name of that part as may just look for replacement.
Shawn Agne

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Don McCombs
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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby Don McCombs » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:54 am

Rear rockshaft. Why not just drill another hole at the correct location?
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ShawnAgne
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2016 5:13 pm
Zip Code: 45380
Tractors Owned: 1952 Cub w/ 184 motor (Kid)
12V with Petronix
IH 3160 Mower Deck
54 Leveling Blade
193 Plow
IH528 Trailer
Front/Rear Weights
1955 Farmall 300 (Clarence)
12V with Petronix
Woods L306 72"
1955 Farmall 100 (Thomas)
Woods L59 60"
A60 Leveling Blade
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Versailles, Ohio

Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby ShawnAgne » Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:09 pm

The extra length scratched up the decal on my newly restored plow. Thing has to look nice as it holds the concrete down in my barn. Plus more importantly it interferes with the cargo rack my sprayer goes in.
Shawn Agne

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Re: Would this be the cause of my problem?

Postby Glen » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:55 pm

Hi,
Below is the Cub 193 Plow owner's manual, if you need it. There is a pic of the rear rockshaft on page 10, showing the original length of the shaft. :)

http://farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.clea ... index.html


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