Winter Weight Oil, Cranking and Lubrication

Are you now campaigning against repairing leaky rear seals? :mrgreen:

Why can't we just use common sense. Follow the recommendations in the manual. (Even if the manual is 50+ years old)
Light weight oil in cold weather, heavier weight oil in warm weather. Anything else is at user discretion.
 
But then should we not all be seeking out and using non-detergent 10W for the winter and 30W for the summer?

Our cub has had nothing in it but detergent oil for the last 20+ years and it shows - no sludge, no smoke, doesn't use a quart of oil in a year while mowing every week (1-2 hours).
Oil technology has improved so much in even the last 10 years that the cub should do nothing but love the new wear protection and longevity it provides.

I have an S10 that I bought new in December 1985 - it just turned 27 yesterday - and it's had nothing but the cheapest oil and filters every 3000 miles since the day it came home. That old Iron Duke 2.5 has 299,975 miles on it and still does not use oil to this day. The motor is as clean as a whistle inside, but the poor truck body is falling through the frame. I've thought seriously about transplanting it into a cub - it's only an inch longer than the C60...
 
Sorry Jim...SAE10 or SAE30 oil.

Too many people put too much faith in what they hear around the water cooler. (detergent, multigrade, brand, etc) A multigrade 10w30 will do the job just fine in a Cub or any other small engine year round and will be superior in performance to any oil available in 1948. If one has doubts about their oil's performance, they should take samples and send them off to the lab - such as Blackstone lab. I sent one off on my Aurora a while back - after 5000 miles on a partial synthetic, the oil still met new oil performance requirements - the lab suggested I could double the drain interval but I figure oil is far cheaper than a new engine. How many 1948 engines are still out there without a rebuild that have 300,000 miles on them - my bet is none. I have 2 cars over 200,000 miles and 2 more approaching 200,000 miles - over 1,000,000 miles of GM product in the driveway and not one oil related failure - all have run 10W30 or 5W30 their whole lives of whatever was on sale or had a rebate.

As far as engine wear, one of the biggest improvements in engine wear over time has been air filtration. If one wants to reduce engine wear a REAL air filter will do more for both engine wear and oil life than you will spend on the filter. The oil bath filter, although good for its day, is NEVER found in today's world as the only air filter on an installation. It can be found as a 'precleaner' but never as the only air filtration system. Wix makes a self-contained filter that will work perfect on a Cub.

If you are like me and only change oil in the spring, a multiweight either 10W30 or 15W40 should do you just fine in most climates. I don't think you can work a Cub hard enough and long enough to exceed the capabilities of a 10W30 oil in any climate.
 
outdoors4evr":1664ygok said:
Are you now campaigning against repairing leaky rear seals? :mrgreen:

Why can't we just use common sense.
Click to expand...

Common sense tells you an engine needs oil to survive. Selecting the oil for your application moves from common sense to an educated decision.

Years ago when petroleum was cheap compared to today's prices, replenishing oil was cheaper than replacing seals and gaskets.

The industry wide standard in freight was to fill it instead of fix it.

Large freight haulers such as Consolidated Freightways inserviced new units with bulk oil storage dispensers on the back of the cab gravity feeding the crankcase if driver enroute oiling was necessary. The crankcase would frequently deplete before the fuel tanks did.

At the drivers slip seat or half way point, oil level was checked and if found to be low on the stick, the quarter turn valve was opened dispensing the needed oil into the crankcase to complete the trip.

This modification paid for itself quickly by utilizing bulk oil terminal prices for on road oiling instead of gallon jug prices at the truck stop. The oil tanks were topped off at company terminals during fueling.
 
There isn't a 10, only a 10W.

Just because a particular oil or type of oil works well in one situation, doesn't mean it is the right choice in another. Modern oils are better in many ways than the older oils, but modern engines are designed to depend on the better oils. Operating temperature, bearing clearance and even bearing size parameters go hand in hand with capabilities of the oil. That is one of the reasons those temperature/viscosity charts earlier in this thread are all different from each other. They are recommendations for different engines. You can't just go pick any oil off a shelf and say it is better than any oil from 1948. It may not be better FOR A SPECIFIC APPLICATION.

Paper filters have progressed a long way in the last 60 years. But they are not better in all situations. Most car companies changed over from oiled foam to paper by the early '60s. But most cars spend essentially their whole life on pavement. A lot of machinery companies stayed with oil bath. The last Cub came with an oil bath cleaner in 1979. There are reasons for that. They use paper elements now on a lot of off road equipment. But every one I have ever seen, and I suspect every other one that came out of a machinery factory, is used with a centrifugal precleaner. Paper elements filter out smaller particles than an oil bath. Consequently, they plug up too quickly if used by themselves. Most of those small particles are too small for the older engines with larger clearances to care about one way or another. The main effect of a paper element by itself on an older machine is to cause a maintenance problem.
 
While I am not so sure this a good subject for a new guy to jump in on I do have a question.

First the ground work:
The oil industry has reduced the zddp levels in motor oil. Zinc and phosphorus is used as an anti-wear additive but they are pollution problems. Flat tappet engines are becoming a bit of a dinosaur so the added zddp is not needed through out almost all applications.

Having gone through this with my flat tappet push rod v-twin motorcycle engine I made changes in the oil I use in it to ensure a high enough zddp level. We were experiencing cam and lifter failures due to friction from something, the common thought was the use of oil with lowered zddp levels caused this.

I don't use Amsoil products, but their document is an interesting read:

http://www.amsoil.com/techservicesbulle ... tappet.pdf

So my question even though the Cub engine will never see the spring pressures or RPM's like my motorcycle engine would, will it cause cam and lifter failures using the "new" 10w-30 oils with the much reduced zddp levels.

Dad's gone now, however, I can still hear him say "Only low ash IH oil goes in here". :) I like the idea of a lighter weight oil for the winter. My Cub stays in a barn without electricity.


Rod
 
Rather than rattling on about the ZDDP question, I suggest you go to this page and read the initial post. If it is too long, skip to the 3rd from the end paragraph that starts "In addition to the protection " and read it a couple times. From what I have seen of Amsoil's technical articles, they seem to stick with valid statements. However, they seem to not be above arranging those statements in a way that encourages you to draw some less than valid conclusions. Their recommendations are always some Amsoil product that addresses your less than valid concern.
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?16019-Engine-oil-mythology-debunked-and-ZDP-content
Bottom line, don't worry about ZDDP.
 
Been using SAE40 in my '47 cub. The oil pressure runs much higher (all the way to the right) and never have to add any oil between changes.
Given that I only use it in the winter and from what I have been reading here, I am considering switching back to SAE30
 
Changing Oil and FIlters: There might be a better forum topic to put this under, but since we are talking about oil and filters and lubrication, I figured I would drop this here. I am still scooping up stuff I took down from youtube awhile back and just put back up, so please bare with any ramblings in the videos. One error in the audio was that the paint was applied to top of the oil filter cover during restoration in 1998 so it was on there a lot longer than that.

[youtube]hOKtWmrBDmw[/youtube]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOKtWmrBDmw
 
The remarks about changing oil between summer and winter brought back memories of my first experience with 10W30 back in the late 60's. On the farm we always used ASE30 in the summer and ASE10 in the winter. When 10W30 first came out my dad and I would laugh as we watched the liquid flow from the can in stages. First a stream of very fluid oil then a stream of very stiff oil followed by a stream of very fluid oil, and so on until the can was empty. It always seamed we changed the oil when it was to cold to do anything else. Usually -20 F or so. I always had a problem understanding how the stuff worked. Thanks for the info and the memories. :)
 
I have use synthedic oil only in a few of my engines. I used it on my 1950 demo cub after I rebuilt the engine some 10 years ago. I first ran the engine long enough to seat in the rings with penz oil straight HD 30. Then I used royal purple 20-50.. I havent change the oil since but it only gets a few hours of running time per year. I can go out at - 10, the demo will fire right up. I also have a IH model 3200 skid steer with a wisconsin VH-4D engine. I totally rebuilt the engine 5 years ago. I ran it about 100 hrs on penzoil HD 30. In the summer there was a lot of heat from the air cooled engine. I draine the 30 wt penz out then used royal purple 20-50. I noticed a drop in temp coming from the cooling system, How much? well I can only say the cooling system blows out on your back. I couldnt run it for only a couple hours before. With the 20-50 the air coming off the engine is only warm not hot. It has started up at -15 with no problem. Now I would not run synthedic in any engine that has old leather seals. The synthedic will disolve the seals. I have been told that it is impossible by people some years ago on this forum. But I have experionced it first hand with engine seals and any other seal in the lubercating system that is leather.. I also have wroking cubs that have penzoil HD 30 in them year round. Cold weather starting hasnt been a issue. Oil pressure comes righ up BUt I do let them warm up in cold weather.
 
Second the Rotella 15w40....
In ancient times while doing cold start tests running straight 30W, we had to function within one minute at 32F (0C) and got a 10 minute warmup at 0F (-18C). Anything below 0F allowed the use of 0W20 synthetic.
Synthetics are pretty amazing at having super low temperature pour points - If you're using a full synthetic, just about any of them will work down to as low as we can get our tractors to start. I would be leery of using a straight 30 at anything below about 10F in these old tractors, that's why I just stick with the 15W40...
 
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