Serial Number versus Engine Casting Number

[Alec]

My 1948 CUB does NOT have a serial number plate.
I have look carefully at the right side castings from the front to the back.
Not only is there no plate, there are no holes for the plate rivets!!
So, it's been painted so often that it is all disappeared or ......?
From the engine casting I know it's a 1948.
I'd like to replace the serial number plate but, what number do I use.
Is the serial number the same or related to the casting number?
Thanks for any ideas.

 

[Glen]

Not only is there no plate, there are no holes for the plate rivets!!

Hi,
Someone probably has changed it from how it originally was, if there are no holes.

So, it's been painted so often that it is all disappeared or ......?

The serial number plate is originally on the right side of the steering gear housing.
The plate and rivets are metal. Regular paint would not cover them over, unless the paint is thick.

From the engine casting I know it's a 1948.
I'd like to replace the serial number plate but, what number do I use.

If the original plate is gone, there isn't any way to know the original tractor serial number.

Is the serial number the same or related to the casting number?

No, the serial number isn't the date code numbers, or the IH part numbers on the castings.
Below is a page from the 1950 Cub owner's manual, showing where the serial number plate is, and where the engine serial number is.

https://farmallcub.club/rudi/farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Cub%20Owner's%20Manuals/McCormick%20Farmall%20Cub%20Owner's%20Manual%201950/Page%2002.jpg

The engine serial number is stamped into the block. It isn't the same as the tractor serial number.
The 2 numbers were the same on each Cub for a few months in 1947, when they began making Cubs, then they were different.
The engine serial number would probably be some numbers after the tractor serial number.
You may need to clean the area where the number is, and use a light to see it.
Below are pictures from TM Tractor Parts.
The 1st is a plate on a 1948 Cub.
The 2nd is a new plate, they come with no model name, or serial number, or maximum engine speed on them.

 

[Glen]

From the engine casting I know it's a 1948.

If you are looking at the R in the engine block part number, 251341R1, that is not the year code.

There are casting date codes on the larger castings on Cubs. They tell the date when the parts were made. They use a letter for the year.
Below is info from TM Tractor Parts showing what the codes are.

TM Tractor Parts Quality New and Replacement Parts for McCormick Farmall Cub, International Cub, and International Lo-Boy

www.tmtractor.com

The info below shows where the codes are.
The code on the clutch housing is usually partly behind the clutch pedal.
The code on the last part on the page, the steering gear housing, usually can't be seen with the tractor assembled.

TM Tractor Parts Quality New and Replacement Parts for McCormick Farmall Cub, International Cub, and International Lo-Boy

 

[Alec]

Thanks guys.
The R that I see is in the cast date code, not the longer part number below it.
I though that was correct for the year - 1948 in this case.
Here's what I see....

 

[Glen]

Thanks for any ideas.

I looked in the Cub database on here, the database has serial numbers, and other numbers from castings, that people have sent in over the years. It has part of the serial numbers, and other numbers of the total number of Cubs that were made.

It looks like they started using the 251341R2 engine in November 1948, which looks like when yours was made, if that is 11 in the date code in your picture. Before that they were the 251341R1 engine.
Below is info from the database of a Cub with an engine block made on 11 11.

Year. Tractor serial number. Engine serial number.
1948 52381 52960

The engine serial number is 500 and some later than the tractor serial number.
Other Cubs in the list have different spacings between the numbers. They didn't make them with the same spacings between the numbers.
If you post your engine serial number, I can look in the database for info.
I don't know if you can get to the database, since you are new here.

 

[Alec]

I looked in the Cub database on here, the database has serial numbers, and other numbers from castings, that people have sent in over the years. It has part of the serial numbers, and other numbers of the total number of Cubs that were made.

It looks like they started using the 251341R2 engine in November 1948, which looks like when yours was made, if that is 11 in the date code in your picture. Before that they were the 251341R1 engine.
Below is info from the database of a Cub with an engine block made on 11 11.

Year. Tractor serial number. Engine serial number.
1948 52381 52960

The engine serial number is 500 and some later than the tractor serial number.
Other Cubs in the list have different spacings between the numbers. They didn't make them with the same spacings between the numbers.
If you post your engine serial number, I can look in the database for info.
I don't know if you can get to the database, since you are new here.

Thanks very much.
In the picture of the engine block numbers that I attached, the top series is '11 9 R'.
The long number below is '251341R2'.
That's all pretty clear.
Is that long number the engine serial number to which you refer?
If I decide to replace the proper serial number plate, I'd like to have a serial number on it even if not absolutely correct, which appears likely.
Perhaps you can tell me what a typical serial number looked like at that time.
That is, how many digits? All numbers or some letters? Was there a recognizable sequence, that is, started with a specific number or sequence?
I can make up a suitable number & then run it past you to ensure it is not an actual serial number already in the database.
Thanks again.
I want to make this machine look as original as possible. I sleep better knowing it's correct, or close!

 

[Jim Becker]

I am not supportive of making up a serial number. The database is only a very small percentage of the Cubs that still exist. So, avoiding serial numbers in the database would be far from ensuring you are not duplicating the number of an existing tractor. Some people have wanted a serial plate but didn't have the serial number have done various things like installing reproduction serial plates with stamped in Xs for the last few digits, others have stamped in the word "UNKNOWN". Another option is to find and use an original plate from a junked tractor that is close to what you think the tractor is.

In response to the questions in your last post:
"11 9 R" is the date code for when the raw casting was poured in the foundry (11/9/1948). 251341R2 is the part number of the bare block. The engine serial number is STAMPED into a flat area of the block above these CAST IN numbers. In post #2 of this thread, Glen posted a link to an illustration of exactly where to look. The original tractor serial numbers were simple sequence numbers starting from 501 and ending at 253685, with some blocks of numbers skipped over. From what we know of your tractor, it appears to have been a 5-digit number starting with a 5. These numbers could have suffix letters indicating specific equipment as documented in the parts catalog. In this case, any code was unlikely. Have you been able to locate and read the engine number yet? From it we might be able to add more comments.

By the way, the apparent absence of rivet holes for the tractor serial plate has a couple possible explanations. The holes could be there with the rivets removed or at least the rivet heads gone. Either way, a subsequent paint job could have filled or covered the holes/rivets. There also have been times when aftermarket replacement bolsters were available. These replacements may not have had the holes drilled. An inspection of casting marks should be able to determine whether it is an original part or a replacement.

 

[Alec]

I am not supportive of making up a serial number. The database is only a very small percentage of the Cubs that still exist. So, avoiding serial numbers in the database would be far from ensuring you are not duplicating the number of an existing tractor. Some people have wanted a serial plate but didn't have the serial number have done various things like installing reproduction serial plates with stamped in Xs for the last few digits, others have stamped in the word "UNKNOWN". Another option is to find and use an original plate from a junked tractor that is close to what you think the tractor is.

In response to the questions in your last post:
"11 9 R" is the date code for when the raw casting was poured in the foundry (11/9/1948). 251341R2 is the part number of the bare block. The engine serial number is STAMPED into a flat area of the block above these CAST IN numbers. In post #2 of this thread, Glen posted a link to an illustration of exactly where to look. The original tractor serial numbers were simple sequence numbers starting from 501 and ending at 253685, with some blocks of numbers skipped over. From what we know of your tractor, it appears to have been a 5-digit number starting with a 5. These numbers could have suffix letters indicating specific equipment as documented in the parts catalog. In this case, any code was unlikely. Have you been able to locate and read the engine number yet? From it we might be able to add more comments.

By the way, the apparent absence of rivet holes for the tractor serial plate has a couple possible explanations. The holes could be there with the rivets removed or at least the rivet heads gone. Either way, a subsequent paint job could have filled or covered the holes/rivets. There also have been times when aftermarket replacement bolsters were available. These replacements may not have had the holes drilled. An inspection of casting marks should be able to determine whether it is an original part or a replacement.

I completely understand your logic re making up a serial number.
My brother has 4 Cubs, all junkers. I'll see if one has a casting number close to mine & steal a plate from it.
I'll use that plate if it's good or use a new one with his number.
That way there's no danger of duplication.
That'll solve that problem.

I found the engine serial number. See attached.
It appears to be 'CUB M 33574HA'.
The 'A' was indistinct but with care I removed some paint & there it was.
What can you tell me from this?
And again, I thank you for your time.
Alec

 

[Glen]

I found the engine serial number. See attached.

What can you tell me from this?

Thanks for the info.
The engine serial number begins with FCUBM
Enlarging your picture, I can see the number is FCUBM 53574HA
The HA means high altitude, it was an option then, it is shown in the Cub and LoBoy parts manual.
In the database, the closest engine serial number to yours is 53325,
and the tractor with that engine is serial number is 52967.
As Jim said above, only some of the Cubs that were made are in the database.

 

[Glen]

Your Cub looks good in your picture.
The decals on the sides of the hood go forward from where the one in your picture is. They go above the 3 ribs, stamped in the sides of the hood.
Below is a picture from the 1950 Cub owner's manual showing the decals, if you can enlarge it, it is more clear.
I sent you a message, you get to it at the upper right of the page.

https://farmallcub.club/rudi/farmallcub.com/rudi_cub/www.cleancomputes.com/Cub/Cub%20Owner's%20Manuals/McCormick%20Farmall%20Cub%20Owner's%20Manual%201950/Page%2003.jpg

 

[Jim Becker]

Glen pretty well covered what the engine number tells us. Had your engine number been 33574, it would have been a 251341R1 block from the previous June. The HA high altitude option consisted of a cylinder head with a higher compression ratio. The first engine number in the database that is bigger than yours is 54709, which was used in tractor serial number 53508. So your original serial number was likely between 52967 and 53508 and probably below 53220. This would put the build date very late in November.

Note my use of "likely" and "probably". During the original build, engines were not necessarily kept in strict numerical sequence. So, any conclusions based on the engines being used in sequence could be wrong.

 

[Alec]

Wow!
Thanks for all the info guys.
If someone in charge of such things wants to add the information about my Cub to the database, please do so.
Take care.
Alec