Recommendations: Hydraulic Measuring Tool

lakesurfer

Active member
My TC started misbehaving, and I may try to measure hydraulic pressure (as described in the service manual) before just rebuilding the pump and/or cylinder block. Are there any *frugally priced* tool kits of acceptable quality that the mentors here might recommend for this?

Or perhaps in this case it's just not worth it and I should start by rebuilding the pump?

It's not why I posted, but I suspect someone will ask, so here's the symptom: TC was working fine. I plowed and disced a good sized garden. I had cinder blocks on the disc implement at the end. Right when I was done, the TC would no longer lift the disc implement w/o help, although it *would* hold it up in place just fine.

Answers to Legit questions I expect:
* There are no leaks.
* The TC does move the rock shaft forward and back easily with no load.
* The TC is not making any unusual noise.
* No, my crankcase does *not* appear to be filling up.
* I checked the fluid, and it was translucent, clean, and at the level of the fill port.
* I have *not* tried yet to bleed air out, but will now that another minor issue has been resolved.

Thank you.
 
Hi,
Remember to check the Touch Control fluid with the arms in the rear, or down position, like the Cub operator's manual says.
The fluid rises in the unit as the arms go to the rear. If you fill it with the arms ahead, it will have too much fluid in it.
A funnel with a flexible tube works good for putting fluid in the Touch Control.
Below is a listing for a funnel with a flexible tube at NAPA, this is just an example. I asked at NAPA, and he said the thing at the end of the tube comes off, I think it would need to come off to put the end of the tube into the hole in the Touch Control. :)
https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_8212733
 
tractorpoor":15vodzgh said:
Do you have the helper spring for the fast hitch installed?

Yes, when using the implements I did. I took it off to better access the fluid port on the cylinder block.
 
Did the lifting problem happen gradually, like maybe getting worse as it got hotter? Or did it happen all at once, like something happened at one time?
 
Jim Becker":1ov1zfaa said:
Did the lifting problem happen gradually, like maybe getting worse as it got hotter? Or did it happen all at once, like something happened at one time?

All at once, Jim. It conveniently manifested right after the work was complete and I was about to head home for another implement.
 
All at once suggests the pressure control valve has quit functioning. This usually shows up as a total shutdown of the system. The rockshaft won't even move with no load. There is a small orifice with an orifice screen in the system. A small bit of trash in the orifice or the screen can shut things down. I suggest that you remove and clean these parts before deciding on more drastic steps.

The orifice can be accessed through the Touch-Control head. Unfortunately, to reach it you need to get the rear tank support out of the way. Then you remove a pipe plug in the head. Details can be found scattered through this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=112567
 
Jim Becker":1n7beuxx said:
All at once suggests the pressure control valve has quit functioning. This usually shows up as a total shutdown of the system. The rockshaft won't even move with no load. There is a small orifice with an orifice screen in the system. A small bit of trash in the orifice or the screen can shut things down. I suggest that you remove and clean these parts before deciding on more drastic steps.

Awesome, Jim. Does this look like what you are describing to me? (I attached a diagram of the TC cylinder head with the "pressure regulator check valve" and associated parts highlighted)
 

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Jim Becker":16pb5n34 said:
There is a small orifice with an orifice screen in the system.

[To myself] Read more carefully, Joe!

I followed the thread you referenced and see that what I now think you mean is item #32 in the diagram I submitted: the Orifice plug w/ screen.

Now do I understand correctly?

If so, do I further correctly understand that the orifice screen can be serviced w/o removing the cylinder head? [Edited]: You wrote in the other thread that it is accessed through a "pipe plug in the head". So, yes.

Epic. Thank you.
 
Yes you have it now. References 41-48 are the valve. It is controlled by a small flow through number 32. You service 32 through the pipe plug without removing the head. You don't even need a gasket to do this. It is just a bit of a pain to get the tank support out of the way.
 
Jim Becker":1as31mqz said:
Yes you have it now. References 41-48 are the valve. It is controlled by a small flow through number 32. You service 32 through the pipe plug without removing the head. You don't even need a gasket to do this. It is just a bit of a pain to get the tank support out of the way.

Amazing, Jim. Would be super sweet if all it turns out to be is this. Thank you!
 
Hi,
Below is a picture from TM Tractor Parts of the rear of the Touch Control.
The plug to remove is a little below half way down the head, and a little to the left of the middle.
If you remove the dash, while you are there, you could check the Touch Control head bolt torque, if you have a torque wrench.
The Cub service manual says tighten the bolts to 45 ft lbs. It says tighten them evenly.
 

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I pulled out the "orifice plug with screen" and found it to be clean, and undamaged. I blew it out vigorously with brake cleaner, both through the screen and through the orifice and let it dry before reinstalling it.

Then I put everything back together so it could run and I could perform the air purging procedure. Once again, the level was correct when the hydraulics were "down", and the fluid was clean. I ran the TC back and forth more than 20 times with the filler cap off to get any air out, the reinstalled the cap.

For a load test, I connected the 8-disc plough to the fast hitch. There was NO helper spring this time, b/c I had to remove it to get to stuff. Now the TC raises and lowers the implement, but jerks on the way up and *really* jerks on the way back down. The control is NOT smooth.

I am going to do some RTM but am open to the wisdom of this group. -Joe
 
Would you say the behavior is better? or do you think it will quit completely again when fully up to operating temperature?

The system can be a little jerky, particularly if you are trying to control the movement speed by slowly moving the lever. Does the jerkiness happen when you throw the lever from one extreme to the other? There could still be some air trapped in the wrong places that just needs some time to work itself out. Engine speed can also make a difference in the behavior. I'd hate to see you tear the whole thing apart and do an overhaul to deal with some normal behavior. Without seeing it first hand, it is hard to judge.

If the jerkiness is out of bounds, the problem is likely in the main Touch-Control unit rather than the pump. So that is the direction you need to go to fix it.
 
Jim Becker":1gurjduz said:
Would you say the behavior is better?

Marginally better. Before (after a hard day's work, and with a helper spring but also with cinder blocks on the disc plough) it needed human help to go up. Don't remember if it jerked going down. NOW (fresh, with no helper spring or cinder blocks) it goes up and down, albeit jerking each way.

It WAS able to HOLD that load up firmly, for a 3.1 mile trip back to my home. It did not fade at all.

Jim Becker":1gurjduz said:
or do you think it will quit completely again when fully up to operating temperature?

No idea, Jim.

Jim Becker":1gurjduz said:
Does the jerkiness happen when you throw the lever from one extreme to the other?

Both. Moving the lever fast from extreme to extreme, and when adjusting the lever slowly.

Jim Becker":1gurjduz said:
Engine speed can also make a difference in the behavior.

Jerkiness observed at fast idle and slow.

Jim Becker":1gurjduz said:
Without seeing it first hand, it is hard to judge.

Maybe I'll post a link to a video.

Jim Becker":1gurjduz said:
If the jerkiness is out of bounds, the problem is likely in the main Touch-Control unit rather than the pump. So that is the direction you need to go to fix it.

I don't know what is "out of bounds" as I am still a bit of a Cub rookie. However, I think digging into the TC head will be where I end up.

Glen":1gurjduz said:
If you remove the dash, while you are there, you could check the Touch Control head bolt torque, if you have a torque wrench.
The Cub service manual says tighten the bolts to 45 ft lbs. It says tighten them evenly.

Glen, I forgot to check torque on the head bolts!! D'oh! That will be the very next step, although at this point I think the trouble is deeper, there no sense NOT checking as you suggested.

-Joe
 
lakesurfer":rzrqcssb said:
I don't know what is "out of bounds" as I am still a bit of a Cub rookie. However, I think digging into the TC head will be where I end up.
At this point, I think you are probably right. I would probably try to live with it a little while in case there is some trapped air that might eventually work its way out. I'm not convinced this is likely to change anything. But we are out of options that avoid a complete teardown.

There is only one other thing I can think of short of the teardown. The control valve itself can be pulled out from the front side. I suppose it could be sticking. There is one o-ring on it. you could pull it out, clean it up and install a new o-ring. Here is a thread that talks about that operation.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=113887&p=907281
 
This whole thing has been more of a mystery because my son-in-law (for whom IH tractors are a lifelong passion, and who owned this one and worked it for 20+ years before restoring it) rebuilt the hydraulics completely w/in the last 5 years. Spoke to him last night. Turns out it was "almost" completely rebuilt. The Control Valve Sealing Ring (#20 in the illustration) was missing from the TC rebuild kit and he said he couldn't order it singly at the time. He bought another kit later, and when he sold the tractor to me, the kit came with it. Bottom line, it looks like I have the Control Valve Sealing Ring "in stock"! So that will be the next effort.

I am going to clean everything well and attempt this procedure w/o removing the TC. I did read that some who've done this say that removing the TC makes it all easier, so I'll keep that in mind and might move to that approach quickly if leaving it on the tractor seems too frustrating.
 

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