New 154: Clutch issues

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toehead
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Mon Apr 30, 2018 8:37 am

Does anybody know the correct bushing sizes for the input shaft and the planetary plate assembly? I'd like to put new bushings in.

Edit: Shaft diameters are standard bushing sizes:

Planetary gear holder: 3/4" shaft
Input transmission spline: 5/8" shaft

At least the input spline also seems to be a standard housing size of 7/8". The planetary isn't measuring standard but may just be some crud. I'll press out the bushing and measure the clean area.

It also looks like the planetary gearset has room to accept a longer bushing. I might do that to improve the load distribution.

outdoors4evr
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby outdoors4evr » Tue May 01, 2018 6:10 am

184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller

toehead
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Tue May 01, 2018 8:07 am

Items number 4 and number 8 on this fiche have internal bushings. They aren't listed as separate parts, but it doesn't mean they aren't replaceable :)

Here is the input spline: This bushing is a standard size, and can be ordered from mcmaster or similar.
20180501_104219.jpg
20180501_104212.jpg


Here is the planetary gearset. This bushing is a standard ID (for 3/4 shaft) but seems to be a non-standard housing size. I'll turn down something to fit.
Also notice how SHORT the bushing is! It only goes partway up into the housing. I notice the aftermarket ones from Hamiltonbobs have a much longer bushing. When I replace this one, i'll increase the length as well.

20180501_104203.jpg
20180501_104159.jpg

toehead
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Tue May 01, 2018 11:38 am

Edit, measured the clean area of the planetary and it is also a 7/8" housing. There is a step halfway up the housing that prevents pressing further. I'll just replace the bushing with like.

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby mozer71 » Tue May 01, 2018 3:07 pm

Good moves Mr. Toe ! By golly you don't want to go back in there for a long time. And You will know that it wasn't because of some bushing that could have been replaced/machined while it was apart. I will thank you forward for this primer and further back to the creators and members who built this particular "House of Cubs".

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby mozer71 » Tue May 01, 2018 3:25 pm

I will say something from a new member interacting with another newbie. You came to this table armed with knowledge and photos to back up the issue in which you are involved. Constant progress along short time is very inspiring. This excites me and others but must remember..Must not overlook the fine gents and tractor people who didn't have a camera during brutal times. They made these tractors go, one way or another.
I salute all of You.!

toehead
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Tue May 01, 2018 3:45 pm

Thanks Mozer! This is a good forum and I hope this will be useful to somebody else who is digging into the creeper drive.

Here is the final result, all cleaned up with new bushings.
20180501_162458.jpg


The bushing dimensions that are required are as follows (OD X ID X L). These should be available in a lot of places.

Input spline: 7/8 x 5/8 x 1 1/8

Planetary: 7/8 x 3/4 x 3/4
I didn't end up putting a longer bushing into the planetary since it has a hard stop, but it should be possible with some light machining. I don't have a boring bar, so I didn't do it.

Also, the nose of the shaft that rides in the input spline bushing had a nice lip on it that I needed to file.
Last edited by toehead on Wed May 02, 2018 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

mozer71
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby mozer71 » Tue May 01, 2018 7:30 pm

Creeper Keeper. For whatever reason newer members......it already happened. Everything already happened and it was discussion via letters. I will not dismiss the past while appreciating the future.
Certain things remain but certain People don't. Gosh even within different subsets of tractors and machining, dang :(
There is no question that the Farmalls have outlived their owners. Unlike a tombstone which is rarely visited, we can read decades of history and still have the viable machine they owned.The Farmall are crawling machines to a purpose that no -Don't say no- They abide and we are lucky to have them. Here and dear by their history and some saw a lot.

toehead
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Wed May 02, 2018 6:47 am

Yeah, these are great machines that have stood up over the years. There are fingerprints from the past all over this thing ( mostly with incorrect repairs, but hey, it worked. A quick example: All the pins that should be spirol coiled pins have been replaced with regular roll pins. It worked, but the chance of breaking one is much higher).

Your statements bring the quote from Samuel Clemens to mind: " History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes". This has all be done before. However, wIth the internet, it's easier to share and hopefully preserve the information for those that follow. I'm of an age where I grew up with this stuff, so it is second nature for me to document my projects with images and forum posts.

Somebody brazed some lumps on the clutch brake plate, probably to get more life out of worn pucks. Machined it off tonight so that it's flat.


7111.jpeg

toehead
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Fri May 04, 2018 11:55 pm

OK, how the hell do I drive the coiled spring back into input shaft onto the transmission without damaging bearings? Do you just drive it with a drift pin and hope you don't chip anything in the transmission input shaft bearing??

mozer71
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby mozer71 » Sat May 05, 2018 8:56 pm

I don't know/ remember about the spring in question. Steel wire of a dia X2 under the play is appropriate in sometimes. The spring is compressed, usually with a press and thin stainless wire binds across the spring windings. It is not at the ends. Depending upon the shape of the spring being inserted, pressure is reduced and the other side is wired, creating a curved compressed spring. While inserting, the wires are cut/pulled out.
Can't say from here and this isn't new around Here.

mozer71
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby mozer71 » Sat May 05, 2018 11:14 pm

IR wire, the smallest have huge tensile strengths and there will be shared coils. Not many at all. It is something to place otherwise impossible spring into a unit, clip and retract the wire. Old news as McPherson struts and springs were banded tight for installation.

mozer71
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby mozer71 » Sun May 06, 2018 1:08 pm

The wire I mentioned was from one of reels. These came from DMRO or otherwise Military surplus when a Base was closing. This was the wire which tied certain castellated nuts. The diameter was about .0185" That wasn't too thick for some things. The tensile strength is astounding while it can be bent to shapes. unlike hardened wires. There are certain tools used in industry or military which grip the wire by narrow jaws. The end of the handle has a knob which is pulled out. Spiral drive twists the wires. I guess everyone knows about these here but I need reminding at times. :)

toehead
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Fri May 11, 2018 12:05 pm

All back together. I eventually just put the pin back in with a hammer.. It goes against my better judgement, but seems to be OK .

Now onto the next issue: The PTO clutch started slipping under load the 2nd time I tried to lift something with the FEL.

Hopefully I can pull it out without removing any sheet metal: My cab will prevent removing any sheetmetal around the seat.

toehead
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Mon May 14, 2018 11:43 am

PTO clutch is out, and it is trashed. THe basket needs to be repaired/replaced. Bearings are good.


For now, I think I will machine a coupling that will tie both shafts together and bypass the PTO clutch. It'll run when the engine runs. I won't have damaged anything as well, so if in the future I need to go back to a clutched PTO I will.

For now, this is OK for me (unless there is a reason I shouldn't?)


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