New 154: Clutch issues

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toehead
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New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:20 pm

I just picked up a 154 with IH loader attachment, and I need some clutch work! There seems to be some creative engineering going on by somebody in the past life of this machine.

My issues:

1) Throwout retainer is very loose on the driveshaft and rattles around (probably can move 0.2 inches on the shaft in any direction). I assume the interior bushing is gone. When the clutch is released, it makes a terrible rattly racket.
My concern is that that the driveshaft may have been worn as well due to this motion. Thoughts?


2) The pressure plate is also pretty "wiggly" on the creeper input shaft, as well as the driveshaft. I assume the pilot bushing is worn. My concern here is that it might have worn the creeper input shaft? Which usually goes first? Should I be concerned about the end of the driveshaft?

3) Clutch is at the end of adjustment: There are only 2 threads or so left before there is no more adjustment. Is this usually a worn friction disc?

4) Somebody replaced the brake pucks with sections of brass rod. Needless to say, that doesn't work.



Is there a thread that shows a clutch replacement on one of these? I've looked at the manual and at the threads that I have been able to find, and still have questions.

Thanks to all those who respond!

-Brendan

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby SONNY » Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:16 pm

The problem with loaders on these little tractors is that the drive lines are not heavy enough to withstand the abuse so things go south pretty fast.
Sounds like some dis-assembly will be needed to asses the damage.--Just my opinion, but sounds like you will need to start up with a whole new clutch, and hope the shafts have not been destroyed.--if they are, then they too will have to be replaced.--not a cheap/easy fix by no means but without a good clutch there is not much use for the unit. thanks; sonny
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:19 pm

Thanks sonny. Called Bob and I've got a new clutch kit and rear pressureplate on the way. He seemed pottery sure the shafts will be fine, but we will see.

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby Landreo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:10 pm

It may be better to take things apart before ordering parts. If the driven disc is lose on the creeper shaft then you may need more than a clutch kit, if you need a clutch kit at all. A worn clutch will be visible when you remove the cover over the tunnel.

A worn carrier for the throwout bearing may be possible but the carrier is not at all a tight fit on the drive shaft. I would just remove the drive shaft and carrier and look at it for wear. It may be fine.

I have used both copper and brass rods as replacements for the brake pucks, they are working fine after over 10 years of use. The originals appear to be garolite. I have some garolite rods and made some pucks for my loader 154 also with good results.

The throwout bearing is just a ball bearing with a wear cover. It will get sloppy and worn over time and will use up a lot of the adjustment rod. The clutch disc may be fine. Better to remove the carrier and just look at what is worn before ordering parts.

Removing the clutch and driveshaft is not a big deal but there are two types on the 154. The early type has a center bearing, really not centered but closer to the engine, the later type has no center bearing. The earlier type is a bit more involved but the later type can have the driveshaft removed, clutch replaced, and put back together in a few hours while sitting on a stool beside the tractor.

I have had mixed results with HamitonBobs clutch stuff. One repair kit flew apart in 1/2 hour or so of use. I ordered what I needed from McMaster Carr to do it right. Another pressure plate was slightly off so hours later I still could not get the plate to align. They did send me another one but that was after hours of frustration with the old new one.

I would just remove the drive shaft and post photos of the clutch, drive shaft ends, throwout bearing, input shaft end prior to ordering anything.

There may be a how to on removing the clutch but I or others can post their step by step instructions if you want.

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:37 pm

Thsnks for the detailed response!

I've got the latter type, with a single piece driveshaft. Is sliding the motor forward the best way to go for removal?

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby Landreo » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:30 am

None of my numbered series tractors have creeper but the process should be similar. In those without a creeper, there is no need to move the engine. The drive shaft will shift forward into a hole in the center of the flywheel. This will move the shaft forward enough so it will clear the clutch plate and that shart rear end will drop down under the tractor. The basic operation is to take off the tunnel cover, remove the rubber shift knob. put in 3rd gear and lift the cover off. From there, look at the throwout bearing, slowly press on the clutch pedal, the bearing will contact the clutch fingers and quickly start to push the fingers inward. As the bearing wears it will get sloppy and the bearing will continue to move towards the fingers but not push the fingers inward due to bearing slop. That may be the source of your lack of clutch adjustment.

If you are going to remove the clutch, loosen the 6 bolts on the pressure plate but do not remove the bolts. Remove the 4 bolts and the pins holding the clutch fork support.

Remove the right side access plate so you can get to the flywheel. Loosen the 4 bolts that connect the drive shaft coupler to the flywheel. Do not remove the bolts at this time. Take a strip of emery cloth or sandpaper and clean any rust or paint off the driveshaft just to the rear of that coupler. It needs to be clean for 3 inches since the coupler will be moved or slid to that area. Remove the allen head capscrew, that screw should be very tight. I use a 1/4 inch allen on a 3/8 socket. A standard "L" shaped allen wrench may not be enough. You can get a set of those allen wrenches at Harbor Freight or Lowes. You will need those to put the screw back in at the end. A standard allen wrench will not tighten enough.

Once the screw is out, put in neutral, clamp a set of vise-grips on the driveshaft away from the area you cleaned, rotate and jerk the shaft to break it loose from the coupler. Penetrating oil will help. If you decide to use heat, be careful, the coupler has a set of 4 rubber bushing next to the flywheel.

Once the shaft is loose, then push forward towards the flywheel and rotate back and forth. The shaft will slide through the coupler into the hole in the center of the flywheel. Remove the 4 screws on the coupler connecting to the flywheel. The back of the shaft will come out of the clutch splines and drop under the clutch.

When replacing the shaft, the allen head capscrew has to be very tight to keep the coupler tight on the shaft. Use that 3/8 allen socket.

My caveat is that this may not apply to those with a creeper.
The manuals section has repair manuals for the numbered series, download those manuals.

Loader work is all clutch work and the clutches will take a beating. There is nothing inherently wrong with the clutches on a 154 nor is a 154 too small for a loader. It is expected that a gear driven loader tractor will need more clutch replacement than a non loader tractor.

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:35 pm

Thanks for the instructions. Everything came out in in 20 minutes, easy peasy. Pictures of the damage attached.
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Last edited by toehead on Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby Bob McCarty » Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:17 pm

No pictures that I can see.
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we need to think differently."
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toehead
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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Tue Apr 17, 2018 8:58 pm

I'll try again when I have access to my computer!

In summary; everything needs to be replaced from the engine back, including the driveshaft. I think the creeper input shaft is OK.

When reassembling, do I use any lubricant on the pilot bushing?

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby Eugene » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:07 am

Lubricate the pilot bushing. I lubricate the bushing with engine oil. Wait a couple of hours, then lubricate again before assembly.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby outdoors4evr » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:39 am

The center splines of the clutch are less worn than the driveshaft. Guess we know which material was the harder steel.
When I disassembled my 184, both the driveshaft and the clutch splines were rounded off equally.
That would certainly explain the rattling! Looks like it is time to replace it all. Clutch, Pressure Plate (at least the fingers), Throwout bearing with carrier, and the driveshaft.
184 w/ Creeper & 3-Point
IH 3160a Mower
IH Model 15 Tiller

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby Eugene » Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:17 am

Not that this may be your noise problem, but my noise is caused by the pto clutch. Noise goes away when the pto is engaged.
I have an excuse. CRS.

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby Jim Becker » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:39 am

outdoors4evr wrote:The center splines of the clutch are less worn than the driveshaft. Guess we know which material was the harder steel.

Clutch disk has probably been replaced in the past. The shaft is probably original.

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby mozer71 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:25 pm

Wow you guys are great.! I was just looking around and find detailed info. That is about the worst driveshaft I ever saw and now toehead can repair with confidence.

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Re: New 154: Clutch issues

Postby toehead » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:04 pm

They certainly are helpful. This is my first cub, and I was a little leery about tackling a big job without doing the research. Thankfully these folks helped me with that part so the job went smoothly

I had some more fun while waiting on the part. I've been soaking the sparkplugs for several days, and tapping on them every time I walk by. Today I pulled the tank to fix the broken front mount, and decided to pull the plugs at the same time. 3 of 4 came out ok. 1 broke off instantly, as there was barely anything left of it.

Once it broke, the ceramic and center electrode came out as one piece, leaving the threads. I used a shopvac to suck out the debris. Next, I turned down a bolt so that it fit tightly into the plug, to prevent more debris from entering the cylinder. I put the bolt in head first, with the threaded section coming up out of the plug and past the threads. Then, I welded all around the bolt so that the shrinking weld bead would pull the threads away from the cylinder head. Lastly, I welded another bolt on the top to give me something to grab.

After chasing the threads, all better!
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