This site uses cookies to maintain login information on FarmallCub.Com. Click the X in the banner upper right corner to close this notice. For more information on our privacy policy, visit this link:
Privacy Policy

NEW REGISTERED MEMBERS: Be sure to check your SPAM/JUNK folders for the activation email.

Help on amending the soil

Farming and rural life discussion forum. Cooking, hunting, gardening, fishing, critters, etc.
User avatar
pickerandsinger
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
Zip Code: 13143
Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
2019 " KuB"ota 2601 loader and roto tiller
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog
Circle of Safety: Y

Help on amending the soil

Postby pickerandsinger » Tue Jul 09, 2013 5:05 am

I added on to my garden by spreading about 6 inches of clay based soil creating an area about 20 x 100 to my existing plot....( I had a lot of clay pushed up I had to use, I know not a wise choice)....Of course we have had a little :shock: rain.....So then I covered it with 6/8 inches of well seasoned horse manure....It is a bit tricky to run the cub thru with a york rake behind it, I might add....Gotta get some front wheel weights :mrgreen: ...But its done....I plan on leaving it as is till it drys out, but then....Should I plow it to mix it up and then attempt to run the roto-tiller thru it....Or just run the tiller thru it...And should I plant a cover crop like winter rye on it or just leave it till next year...I'm thinking just leave it till it drys out, roto till it and plant it next spring and see what happens, but I am open to all suggestions as always.....Thanks Dave
In Memory of 58,286

SPONSOR AD

Sponsor



Sponsor
 

User avatar
Don McCombs
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 17446
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:45 am
Zip Code: 21550
Tractors Owned: "1950 Something" Farmall Cub
1957 Farmall Cub w/FH
1977 International Cub w/FH
1978 International Cub
1948 Farmall Super A
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: MD, Deep Creek Lake

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby Don McCombs » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:33 am

I don't think plowing with a moldboard plow will get you the results that you want. I'd till the area with a 3 point tiller and make several passes. A walk-behind tiller won't get deep enough. If you don't have a 3 point setup, find someone in your area that does and tills for a fee. Shouldn't be too expensive. Costs $40-$50 in this area. I would definitely plant a cover crop early this fall. Rye as a first choice or triticale as a second. Triticale is a hybrid of rye and wheat. When things dry out next spring, spray the cover crop to kill it and till again.
Don McCombs
MD, Deep Creek Lake

Image
Proud Member of Maryland Chapter 39

The best teachers are those who show you where to look, but don't tell you what to see.
A. K. Trenfor

v w
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1173
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:56 am
Zip Code: 49053
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Galesburg, MI

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby v w » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:19 am

I agree tilling is better than moldboard plowing, chisel plowing would be second choice. Even a walk behind should be able to mix the manure and soil and begin the breakdown. This should be done as quickly as possible. Remember manure, to a lesser extent when aged, and anything brown will temporarily tie up nitrogen for the decay process. While rye is probably the better cover crop if you don't like herbiciding the cover use oats which winter will kill. Good luck. Vern

User avatar
bob in CT
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 6018
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 9:34 am
Zip Code: 06040
Tractors Owned: 77 Cub (red); 74 Cub; 52 Cub; 50 Cub ( post-demo)
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: CT, Manchester

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby bob in CT » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:37 am

A Gravely rotary plow is perfect for deep soil blending. Beastly to handle if you have handlebar-whipping rocks.

ScottyD'sdad
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
Posts: 7504
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:00 pm
Zip Code: 02769
Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Ma. Rehoboth

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:43 am

Tilling with a good quality rear tined tiller, should give a decent blending. I don't like to use herbicides, so i mow and disk the rye,prior to spring plowing, if Mother Nature allows it. Plowing alone, will turn over most of the rye, if not too tall. Don't plant "deer magnets", like clover, vetch, or other legumes. They produce more nitrogen, bit attract the pesky, antlered rodents! Ed
Image
Member of Chapter 18, and National
Circle of Safety

Eugene
Team Cub Mentor
Team Cub Mentor
Posts: 20344
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 9:52 pm
Zip Code: 65051
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Mo. Linn

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby Eugene » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:08 am

Just thinking. I would do two soil tests. One on the clay, currently top soil, and the second test on the soil below the clay level.

Cover crop of green manure for sure. Type of green manure would depend on the results of both tests. Depending on both soil conditions, I might do a green manure with deep roots, such as turnips.

Results of the soil test would determine my course of action.
I have an excuse. CRS.

User avatar
pickerandsinger
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
Zip Code: 13143
Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
2019 " KuB"ota 2601 loader and roto tiller
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby pickerandsinger » Tue Jul 09, 2013 12:55 pm

Thanks for the replies....Great information....It will definitely help me with my project....Thanks again...Dave
In Memory of 58,286

User avatar
pickerandsinger
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
Zip Code: 13143
Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
2019 " KuB"ota 2601 loader and roto tiller
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby pickerandsinger » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:08 am

Thanks guys....My uphill neighbor came down with his Kubota 3120 and rear tine tiller and Ker chunked the garden extension :{_}: .....I had plowed it beforehand just to see how it worked out....As you said it didn't mix it at all, but was fun...He offered me a set of disc harrows to use but his were a bit to large for a cub....And then I ventured up to my home town and an old friend has a gravely walk behind he doesn't use anymore but has sat for many years....He called me last night and has decided to part with it so after he pulls it out of his shed and checks it out, I'm off to pick that up...So I've used most of your advise, now just to decide on a cover crop... I guess I need one to offset the straw less horse manure....Brown and Green thing....Never thought I'd retrace my childhood with tractors and back to gardening etc....Thanks again for all your advice and help.....Dave :big afro:
In Memory of 58,286

ScottyD'sdad
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
Posts: 7504
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:00 pm
Zip Code: 02769
Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Ma. Rehoboth

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:13 am

I just ordered some Sorghum Sudan grass hybrid seed, for summer cover crop. An annual, grows tall, producing large amounts of organic matter. Recommendation, is to mow it to about 8 inches, when it reaches 3 feet. Mow several times, to prevent seed formation. May be left til spring, or plowed under in the fall, and winter rye, planted. I plan to fall plow, so the stalks can start to break down, over the winter. (Cow farmers use it as a silage crop, or for hay, due to its large amount of vegetation, and fast growth.) Ed

http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Boo ... Sudangrass
Image
Member of Chapter 18, and National
Circle of Safety

User avatar
pickerandsinger
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
Zip Code: 13143
Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
2019 " KuB"ota 2601 loader and roto tiller
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby pickerandsinger » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:35 pm

Thanks Ed
In Memory of 58,286

User avatar
Boss Hog
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
Posts: 10290
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2005 8:35 pm
Zip Code: 23962
eBay ID: dmb2613
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: VA. Randolph

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby Boss Hog » Tue Jul 16, 2013 6:00 pm

Horse dung and clay ? Good luck
IN GOD WE TRUST
All others pay cash
Boss Hog
Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely byJohn Emerich Edward Dalberg

User avatar
pickerandsinger
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1501
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:23 pm
Zip Code: 13143
Tractors Owned: 1957 Cub Low Boy w/ FH Mott Flail Mower
1953 Cub w/ sprayer and 54A blade (Chompers)
1954 Cub w/fast hitch (Ira)
1948 Cub ( Papa Paul)with Henderson loader..
1951 Mutt mix Cub (BattleAx
1950 Farmall Cub (basket case demo)
Cub parts tractor
2019 " KuB"ota 2601 loader and roto tiller
1951 Ferguson TEA 20 (parts)( Uncle Rusty)
F/H Disc Harrow for cub L-38
C-22 Sickle Bar Mower
IH C2 and C3 mower
Universal tool attachment with disc hillers..Rear cultivators (various tips
York Rake for Cub home made
Single bottom Plow for Cub F194
Gravely 5660 12 hp/ w snoblower.rototiller,bush hog
Circle of Safety: Y

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby pickerandsinger » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:48 am

Its a long story Boss....But I ain't a quitter...Just "Makin the best of a bad situation" as the song goes....LOL..
In Memory of 58,286

DanR
10+ Years
10+ Years
Posts: 1631
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 6:28 am
Zip Code: 37743
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Tennessee East

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby DanR » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:42 am

Boss Hog is right. If that clay has any moisture in it it will turn to rock if turned. Timing is very important.
47 Cub (Glenda)
52 Super A
62 Cub (Genie)
43 H
42 M
In all things know which way the wind is blowing.

ScottyD'sdad
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
Posts: 7504
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 7:00 pm
Zip Code: 02769
Tractors Owned: 6"F" cubs
5 lo-boys
1 154
1 184
1 IH444
1 Oliver OC3 crawler
1 AC D10
1 IH 100 manure spreader
1 IH model B corn grinder
3 power units
cub demonstrator
Circle of Safety: Y
Location: Ma. Rehoboth

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby ScottyD'sdad » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:18 am

If he can build up the organic content, it will turn into good soil. We had a plow day, at a farm, in town. That soil was terrible clay, yet it grew crops. With some work,it would grow good crops. He cover cropped with rye, then mowed and baled the rye, for sale, as straw. Plowing it in, would have improved it. (rental land, he didn't want to "invest" in it) Ed
Image
Member of Chapter 18, and National
Circle of Safety

User avatar
Rudi
Cub Pro
Cub Pro
Posts: 28706
Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2003 8:37 pm
Zip Code: E1A7J3
Skype Name: R.H. "Rudi" Saueracker, SSM
Tractors Owned: 1947 Cub "Granny"
1948 Cub "Ellie-Mae"
1968 Cub Lo-Boy
Dad's Putt-Putt
IH 129 CC
McCormick 100 Manure Spreader
McCormick 100-H Manure Spreader
Post Hole Digger
M-H #1 Potato Digger
Circle of Safety: Y
Twitter ID: Rudi Saueracker, SSM
Location: NB Dieppe, Canada
Contact:

Re: Help on amending the soil

Postby Rudi » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:48 am

Dave:

I assume you are familiar with Maritime Potato Farms and how well known we are for our taters. And for our truck gardens and orchards. Many places in the Maritimes are like my garden. Clay is the base soil structure with little top soil especially in newly cleared areas. Over time Mother Nature amends clays with green manure as well as other biologicals. That takes time. What my father-in-law has done for years is to amend with bio-mass, natural sourced pelletized fertilizers and lots of manure as well as wood ash from the wood furnace. Seaweed, fish, lobster etc., are all useful materials to amend the soil, even the traces of salt are beneficial. As soon as it is down, it needs to be harrowed in. It can take time to do this especially when the greens are not broken down. Broken down greens will not do well with tillers especially walk behinds. Multiple passes with a disc harrow is about the best way, it just takes time. Also you will probably have to run a peg tooth or a spike tooth harrow over to level the ground a few times. Again .. seat time :D This type of amendment typically takes about 2 years to return the garden to a good level of nutrients to produce good veggies.

Our plan is to harrow, add fresh greens, harrow, add well seasoned goat manure, harrow for the garden plots. The plan for our fields is somewhat similar. The fields are where we backfilled a number of years ago. It is clay, some sand, gravel .. all kinds of matter. It is growing buckwheat, red rye grass, vetch and other stuff on it's own. I did seed one section around the pond with red rye a couple years ago .. but haven't lately. The plan here is to disc both field and plant green manure cover crops .. either buckwheat or red clover. When it gets semi mature, it will get disced back in. Plant second crop of cover. That will be disced in sometime in the fall. Also plan on spreading ripened goat manure on this are as well. A couple years of regular feeding with green and goat manure and these fields should make great paddocks for our Alpacas.

Soil analysis is a good idea I guess .. most of us here do not go that route. We do not have what y'all have .. as in Extension Agents, so we do it the old way. Worked for 4 hundred years ... so it is good enough for me. We have had some amazing crops over the years when we do the work that is needed in amending the gardens/fields. The years that we have not .. it became readily apparent the following year with greatly reduced yields. Oh and these are simply family gardens, large but we do not sell any of our produce. Yields are still very important.

As Ed said .. build up the organics and you will have a good garden. Just keep at it and you will not be disappointed.
Confusion breeds Discussion which breeds Knowledge which breeds Confidence which breeds Friendship



Return to “Farm Life and Better Half Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 16 guests