Make ethanol free gas

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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby Buzzard Wing » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:22 am

They want to make it 15%...... All the new Chevys around here are 'flexi-fuel'. No such fuel around here.

I can't say how well it works, but I have been using SeaFoam in all the Cub and 2 stroke fuel. One of the big ingredients is naptha (Coleman fuel).

GITractor man is absolutely right about everything. I am a big believer that the less handling the better when it comes to fuel.

The Buzzard prize for product of the year (2012 winner) is the 'No Spill' made in USA gas can. It is by far the best fuel container ever, if you can lift it with one arm, you can fuel with ONE hand. No drips on your hood! http://www.nospill.com/
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby John *.?-!.* cub owner » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:33 am

As I stated earlier, in Mo. we have been mandatory 10% ethanol for several years. The only problems I have run into was on my small 2 cycle stuff that was a few years old the fuel lines deteriorated, and on one of the real old ones the carb guts turned to mush. The newer fuel lines are supposed to be able to handle the ethanol.
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby Buzzard Wing » Sun Feb 03, 2013 10:41 am

I thought it was 'required' to be 10% by federal law?
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby regwal » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:11 am

I enjoyed everyone's input on this subject. What started me thinking about it was a carburetor needing work on an old 8 hp B&S engine mounted on a pull behind garden tiller. It had sat for about three months and wouldn't start. After opening up the carb I was astounded at the condition it was in. I contacted B&S and learned parts were no longer available and they offered to me a new carb for $190.00. I contacted an older gent who found specifications for my carb and pieced together a repair for $30. He told me the "new gas" was keeping him busy with parts for older carbs. I normally use MMO or sea-foam when storing or letting small engines sit idle for any length of time. I must have forgotten this one last time it was used. I use 10% gas in everything and usually use left over gas in my truck. I burn out 50/50 sea-foam with the cubs however after running them. I plan to experiment with this idea a little because higher content ethanol is coming and the older engines were not designed for it. I think the filtered out ethanol could be use in newer engines designed for flex fuel with no problem even if a little water stayed in the mix.
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby Rudi » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:37 am

Larry:

My understanding of Flex-Fuel is that the engine will handle anything from real gas up to 15% Ethanol depending on what is available. My new Honda is supposed to be Flex Fuel compliant, I just don't want to expose it to a diet of that stuff. When we were at Cecil's we had no choice - ethanol was all that we could find - ran great - although the mileage was not the same as the ethanol free fuel. About a 10-15% loss in mileage per tank.

Reg:

I still don't think it is worth monkeying around with re-distilling/filtering fuel. Way too dangerous. Safety first is a good rule to observe..... but that is just my 2 cents worth.
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby gitractorman » Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:58 pm

Something to keep in mind with all the ethanol talk is complete opposite of something that we all grew up being told. Now, because of the ethanol fuels, it is better to stabilize the fuel and run it through the engine, keeping the tank full of stabilized fuel, than to run something out of fuel until it stops. You never actually drain a fuel system when you run something until it dies, and the fuel that remains in the system oxidizes quickly because it is now in contact with air (because you've just drawn air into the fuel system). The last time I run something for the year, snow blower, push mower, chain saw, trimmer, etc., 4 cycle or 2 cycle, the fuel is always treated with Sea Foam or Stabil, for the whole time that I am using the equipment, even if it's an hour or two. I've NEVER had a problem starting something after letting it sit for over a year, when I've done this.

A friend of mine has the exact same Lawn Boy 4-cycle push mower that I have (I sold it to him about 6 years ago), and every spring he brings it over because he cannot get it started. Finally after about the 3rd year, I asked him how he stored it, and he said, "you know, I ran it out of gas and left it because that's what you're supposed to do." I had told him specifically not to do this, but he was always taught otherwise. He still didnt' listen to me (what do I know). Last spring he brought it over, and I couldn't get it started either. Opened up the carb and it was mush.... not the fuel, the actual carb parts. Ended up costing him $100 for a new carb. On the other hand, my exact same push mower, same year, same model, actually bought at the same time, started on the 3rd pull, on the tank of old 10% ethanol gas that I left in it from last fall. I've had it for 6 years now and never even put a spark plug in it.

I do not question that ethanol is bad for things, I know that it IS. However, the things you do along with it make it worse. If fuel is treated with stabilizer, fuel with ethanol is no worse for things than regular gasoline. If you let it sit, unstabilized, exposed to air, it will go bad and corrode whatever is around it. 15% Ethanol is going to be worse than 10% ethanol for going bad and becoming corrosive, just because of the greater reactivity. Chances are, you'll never know the performance difference in whatever you're running it in, unless it's your car and you're checking the fuel mileage...... I can't imagine the complaints and discussions when the fedreal goverment finally banned Leaded Gasoline??????
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby Buzzard Wing » Sun Feb 03, 2013 2:59 pm

Very good points Bill. I never considered the air in the system when you run it 'out' of fuel. I have an unconfirmed suspicion that ethanol may 'erode' a Cub carb too.

Rudi, 'Flexi-Fuel' is up to 85% ethanol.

I just moved a currently non-running generator to take the Cub for a spin. Gas tank is junk, fuel line was replaced with 'new' blend fuel line, I guess I need to tear down the carb on that..... Yuk.

Ross, the chain saw artist, says he shakes the gas and the machine to keep the oil mixed in 2 stroke stuff. Can't hurt.
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby danovercash » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:51 pm

Sta-bil in all small engines & Cubs, all the time. Everything usually starts easily. Back in the eighties at work ethanol gave us a fit in a Honda mower.
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby Bus Driver » Sun Feb 03, 2013 4:15 pm

Regarding the effluent remaining after the proposed ethanol removal process- which I have not tried, the stuff could be put into an open top metal container and ignited. The ethanol might not vaporize fast enough to keep the flame going. Or the container could be placed where rain cannot fall into it and the contents will simply evaporate over time.
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby Rudi » Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:42 pm

Larry:

Just read an article on Flexible-fuel vehicles - hmmmm Interesting. Well I guess too that my Honda which uses Top Tier fuels has a black gas cap so it is not a Flex Fuel Vehicle. I guess that is ok. Eventually we will probably see these things all over the place. But will it happen in me lifetime.. who knows. Funny how certain groups can determine what becomes the norm and what doesn't. History is a really good way to understand where we are and where we are heading. I think Winnie said that during the late 40's.....
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby Matt Kirsch » Tue Feb 05, 2013 10:42 am

I think Bill is on to something here... I have not had a single engine problem that could be attributed to ethanol fuel.

Normally I don't do anything special, and maybe that's the key to it. Everyone is so paranoid about the fuel causing damage that they're shooting themselves in the proverbial foot by draining tanks and *trying* to run the carburetor dry.

Frankly I think "ethanol" is a diagnostic catch-all for a lot of engine problems that have existed since long before ethanol was put in gasoline. It's a convenient scapegoat for mechanics who either have no idea what caused the problem, or don't want to tell the customer the truth.

Sure *some* problems can be attributed to ethanol, but not ALL problems. Right now if you have engine problems, it's automatically blamed on ethanol. Ethanol is the reason the engine ran out of oil and threw a rod? I don't think so. Ethanol is the reason the lawn mower engine has no compression after 25 years of weekly use? I don't think so.

I've pulled apart old chainsaws and found mushy melted fuel lines and carburetor parts. These chainsaws hadn't been run since Reagan was in the White House, so you can't blame ethanol.
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Re: Make ethanol free gas

Postby Scrivet » Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:05 pm

Didn't read how to do it and have no intention of trying (to read it or do it :lol: ). I seem to agree considerably with what Matt says.

Would like to bring up two points about Flex Fuel vehicles.
1. If they're designed to run on Flex Fuel they run on regular gas, E85 flex fuel, or any combination (like say a half tank of regular and a half tank of E85 which would be equivalent to say about E40 :) it's better to fill up when you're under a quarter tank if you're switching)

2. With E85 you're going to get ABOUT 75% of the mileage you get on regular gas. So if you get 20mpg on regular gas expect 15mpg on E85. Thinking another way, when you pay $4 per gallon for regular if the E85 is more than $3 you're paying more per mile.
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